Athlon 64 upgrade opinions

CynJon · 02-23-2004, 12:34 AM

Sorry this is so long--

This could rival one of WFL's posts in length...

Got a decent tax return this year, so I'm contemplating an upgrade to my main system. I plan to reuse my Antec 430W PSU, Case, all drives, etc., so I'm looking at just Mobo, CPU and Memory. I'm upgrading from an AMD 1800+, Soyo Dragon+ and 1GB of PC2100/PC2700 mix--all OC'ed to 2100+ speeds.

What I want is a significant enough upgrade to make it worthwhile, yet not "break the bank" cutting edge...looking try to keep it under $600. My primary use will be as a gaming system, with some occasional video encoding. I'm not planning on OC'ing the system, but who knows...

I initially looked at a combo such as an AMD 2800+ Barton core/Asus A7N8X Deluxe combo which would run about $240 + Memory, but I don't know if that is a big enough jump to justify upgrading...although the 2600+/2800+ is probably the sweet spot in the AMD pricing right now.

I've primarily been an AMD user, but I am open to a P4 system if the price/performance was warranted. I priced a 2.8C/Asus P4C800 deluxe combo at $360 + memory.

I then checked out the prices on the Athlon 64...specifically, the A64 3000+, the "budget" A64. $227 at NewEgg. Not being familiar with the A64 boards, I priced some boards from the manufacturers I've dealt with in the past and found quite a price range:

The MSI K8T NEO-FSR ($94, VIA K8T800 chipset) is highly regarded budget board (to my surprise), with the major complaint being that there's no onboard connections for a front firewire port.

The Abit KV8-MAX3 ($148, VIA K8T800 chipset) is a fully loaded board with great reviews and loads of extras.

The Asus K8V Deluxe ($155, VIA K8T800 chipset)--hey, it's an Asus, fully loaded again, great reviews.

To step up to the nForce3 chipset, there are a number of budget boards that I'm a little leery of. I am considering the Chaintech ZNF3-150 Zenith ($169, nForce3 chipset), probably the most loaded board out there, great reviews (the nForce3 shows the best overclocking results according to most reviews I read), the most expensive board I'm considering.

What I'd like to get is some feedback on a few areas:

1. I'm concerned that Socket 754 is a "transitional" form factor with a limited future...the Opterons and A64FX all use Socket 940. I don't want to paint myself into a corner where I can't upgrade in two years to something significantly faster using Socket 754.

2. Dollar for dollar, even the A64 3000+ spanks the Pentiums up to and sometimes including the 3.2C. Seems like I get a lot more "bang for the buck" with the A64. I can go with the 3000+/Abit KV8 combo for about $15 more than the Intel 2.8C. Is it worth it? Is this a reasonable time to step to 64-bit technology?

3. Memory: I want to get 1GB of memory, at least PC3200 obviously, but I don't necessarily want to spend a fortune on Corsair XMS or Kingston HyperX. Is there a "budget" RAM that anyone has had experience with that has some headroom built into it (i.e. consistently being able to tighten up the timings or increase the FSB? Since I'm not specifically looking to overclock, I'd be more interested in whose CAS 2.5 or 3 could be run at CAS 2 settings for a little "free" performance. An option I was considering was the Kingmax PC3500--would that be likely to run at 200FSB with tighter timings?

Any inputs, recommendations, experiences will be welcomed. TIA!

LPMiller · 02-23-2004, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chosenfool
my own preference for now is a P4 due to cooling solutions - AMDs run too hot for me to take seriously. chips shouldnt fry themselves if the fan dies or the heatsink is taken off, IMHO.

Then don't touch that Prescott. I promise, people are going to lose mainboards to it.

I'd wait till March-April, when AMD goes to socket 939 and you can see how PCI-Xpress shakes out. All new video cards will be on PCI-Xpress, and they are having problems getting out boards that run both agp and PCI-E, so I would wait and see how things shake out.

pain2010 · 02-23-2004, 03:11 PM

I have the AMD64 3200 and it is rock solid on XP. I installed XP64 and it worked fine but didnt have the drivers that i need to get on the net and a few other programs. It is a great system.
AMD64 3200
MSI K8T NERO
Centron 333 @ 1 gig
maxtor 160 gig (maxtor suscks Butt)

Lite on dvdrw drive
Albertron 5600 with 256 memeroy
400 wat power supply
( soon to have another 160 gig hard drive and a cdrw just to lazzy to install right now.)

Msi has the best mother board for the AMD64, 754 socket right now.

I will be getting the FX64 in march or april when i can afford them.

bachviet · 02-23-2004, 04:45 PM

Nothing wrong with getting the AMD64 3000+ because it will run faster than the P4C and the P4E at the same speed (3Ghz). It just run a little hotter but you will be fine with enough cooling. I was about to go with the AMD64 but I can't pass on the Dell 8300 deal.

Markel · 02-23-2004, 10:37 PM

Wow, I was going to posting almost this identical thread in a short time. I'm seriously considering going to the AMD 64 3200 as well.

CynJon · 02-23-2004, 11:48 PM

Thanks for the input and observations. Concerning the memory, is it reasonable to expect budget RAM with a higher speed rating (example: Kingmax PC3500 CAS 2.5 $85@newegg) to be able to run at faster settings at a lower FSB? Do you think this memory would run at, say, 2-3-3-6 timings at 200FSB? I'm reading the reviews on NewEgg and some people are claiming FSB's of 230 with stock timings and one is saying 2-2-2-11@198MHz FSB, but I'm wondering if this would be a typical experience. I know RAM varies from lot to lot and stick to stick, but it just seems to me that this may be an inexpensive way around high performance memory prices. TIA!

BTW, BuyXtremeGear has an AMD64 3000+ bundle with Asus K8V Deluxe and CoolerMaster HSF for $380--a few bucks cheaper than NewEgg with cheaper shipping (to Hawaii anyhow...

)

bachviet · 02-24-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CynJon
Thanks for the input and observations. Concerning the memory, is it reasonable to expect budget RAM with a higher speed rating (example: Kingmax PC3500 CAS 2.5 $85@newegg) to be able to run at faster settings at a lower FSB? Do you think this memory would run at, say, 2-3-3-6 timings at 200FSB? I'm reading the reviews on NewEgg and some people are claiming FSB's of 230 with stock timings and one is saying 2-2-2-11@198MHz FSB, but I'm wondering if this would be a typical experience. I know RAM varies from lot to lot and stick to stick, but it just seems to me that this may be an inexpensive way around high performance memory prices. TIA!
...

If you don't plan to O/C, that memory should work fine. I'm running generic PC3200 (3-3-3) right now in my Dell 400SC.

pain2010 · 02-24-2004, 01:59 PM

Just make sure the Asus K8V Deluxe is the newest one becase they had problems with capasitor ( spelling sucks) when they frist came out.

Markel · 02-24-2004, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pain2010
Just make sure the Asus K8V Deluxe is the newest one becase they had problems with capasitor ( spelling sucks) when they frist came out.

You can to go the NewEgg website and look at the user ratings to get more info on which are the bad capacitors. It is very likely that if you order a board today you will get a newer (revised) version. The Asus K8V DLX is on my short list.

pain2010 · 02-27-2004, 08:31 PM

Kingston HyperX is 119.00 at best buy right now.

CynJon · 02-27-2004, 11:01 PM

Well, I went ahead and ordered the A64 3000+, Asus K8V Deluxe, 1 GB of Corsair XMS PC3200, and one of the new style Chieftec cases from NewEgg. Everything is actually here in Hawaii already, since yesterday, but farking FedEx holds everything for a full day before they put it on the truck. Bastages! So it should all be delivered Monday. I even called and tried to pick it up at FedEx today and they said I couldn't. So basically, I pay for FedEx two day shipping and get my order six days after it is picked up from NewEgg. Suckage. Oh well, it gives me the weekend to pull what I need off my current computer for the swapover. I'll update once I get it up and running. Thanks everyone, for the input!

02-23-2004, 12:34 AM	#1
CynJon Commander Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The middle of the country Posts: 1,424	Athlon 64 upgrade opinions Sorry this is so long-- This could rival one of WFL's posts in length... Got a decent tax return this year, so I'm contemplating an upgrade to my main system. I plan to reuse my Antec 430W PSU, Case, all drives, etc., so I'm looking at just Mobo, CPU and Memory. I'm upgrading from an AMD 1800+, Soyo Dragon+ and 1GB of PC2100/PC2700 mix--all OC'ed to 2100+ speeds. What I want is a significant enough upgrade to make it worthwhile, yet not "break the bank" cutting edge...looking try to keep it under $600. My primary use will be as a gaming system, with some occasional video encoding. I'm not planning on OC'ing the system, but who knows... I initially looked at a combo such as an AMD 2800+ Barton core/Asus A7N8X Deluxe combo which would run about $240 + Memory, but I don't know if that is a big enough jump to justify upgrading...although the 2600+/2800+ is probably the sweet spot in the AMD pricing right now. I've primarily been an AMD user, but I am open to a P4 system if the price/performance was warranted. I priced a 2.8C/Asus P4C800 deluxe combo at $360 + memory. I then checked out the prices on the Athlon 64...specifically, the A64 3000+, the "budget" A64. $227 at NewEgg. Not being familiar with the A64 boards, I priced some boards from the manufacturers I've dealt with in the past and found quite a price range: The MSI K8T NEO-FSR ($94, VIA K8T800 chipset) is highly regarded budget board (to my surprise), with the major complaint being that there's no onboard connections for a front firewire port. The Abit KV8-MAX3 ($148, VIA K8T800 chipset) is a fully loaded board with great reviews and loads of extras. The Asus K8V Deluxe ($155, VIA K8T800 chipset)--hey, it's an Asus, fully loaded again, great reviews. To step up to the nForce3 chipset, there are a number of budget boards that I'm a little leery of. I am considering the Chaintech ZNF3-150 Zenith ($169, nForce3 chipset), probably the most loaded board out there, great reviews (the nForce3 shows the best overclocking results according to most reviews I read), the most expensive board I'm considering. What I'd like to get is some feedback on a few areas: 1. I'm concerned that Socket 754 is a "transitional" form factor with a limited future...the Opterons and A64FX all use Socket 940. I don't want to paint myself into a corner where I can't upgrade in two years to something significantly faster using Socket 754. 2. Dollar for dollar, even the A64 3000+ spanks the Pentiums up to and sometimes including the 3.2C. Seems like I get a lot more "bang for the buck" with the A64. I can go with the 3000+/Abit KV8 combo for about $15 more than the Intel 2.8C. Is it worth it? Is this a reasonable time to step to 64-bit technology? 3. Memory: I want to get 1GB of memory, at least PC3200 obviously, but I don't necessarily want to spend a fortune on Corsair XMS or Kingston HyperX. Is there a "budget" RAM that anyone has had experience with that has some headroom built into it (i.e. consistently being able to tighten up the timings or increase the FSB? Since I'm not specifically looking to overclock, I'd be more interested in whose CAS 2.5 or 3 could be run at CAS 2 settings for a little "free" performance. An option I was considering was the Kingmax PC3500--would that be likely to run at 200FSB with tighter timings? Any inputs, recommendations, experiences will be welcomed. TIA! __________________

02-23-2004, 03:11 PM	#3
pain2010 Lieutenant Junior Grade Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: in the dog house. Posts: 129	I have the AMD64 3200 and it is rock solid on XP. I installed XP64 and it worked fine but didnt have the drivers that i need to get on the net and a few other programs. It is a great system. AMD64 3200 MSI K8T NERO Centron 333 @ 1 gig maxtor 160 gig (maxtor suscks Butt) Lite on dvdrw drive Albertron 5600 with 256 memeroy 400 wat power supply ( soon to have another 160 gig hard drive and a cdrw just to lazzy to install right now.) Msi has the best mother board for the AMD64, 754 socket right now. I will be getting the FX64 in march or april when i can afford them. Last edited by pain2010 : 02-23-2004 at 03:14 PM.

02-23-2004, 04:45 PM	#4
bachviet What's Da Pho*? Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SoCal (714) Posts: 13,296	Nothing wrong with getting the AMD64 3000+ because it will run faster than the P4C and the P4E at the same speed (3Ghz). It just run a little hotter but you will be fine with enough cooling. I was about to go with the AMD64 but I can't pass on the Dell 8300 deal. __________________ Dell Dimension 9200 \| Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz) \| 4x1GB DDR2 \| 256MB nVidia GeForce 8800GT Dell Studio 17 \| Intel Core i7-720QM (1.6GHz) \| 2x2GB DDR3 1066MHz \| 1GHz ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Intel P4-C 3.0GHz \| ECS 865PE-A \| 3x512MB PC3200 \| 128MB PNY GeForce 6600GT

02-23-2004, 10:37 PM	#5
Markel Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 11,733	Wow, I was going to posting almost this identical thread in a short time. I'm seriously considering going to the AMD 64 3200 as well. __________________ stay low... keep moving...

02-23-2004, 11:48 PM	#6
CynJon Commander Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The middle of the country Posts: 1,424	Thanks for the input and observations. Concerning the memory, is it reasonable to expect budget RAM with a higher speed rating (example: Kingmax PC3500 CAS 2.5 $85@newegg) to be able to run at faster settings at a lower FSB? Do you think this memory would run at, say, 2-3-3-6 timings at 200FSB? I'm reading the reviews on NewEgg and some people are claiming FSB's of 230 with stock timings and one is saying 2-2-2-11@198MHz FSB, but I'm wondering if this would be a typical experience. I know RAM varies from lot to lot and stick to stick, but it just seems to me that this may be an inexpensive way around high performance memory prices. TIA! BTW, BuyXtremeGear has an AMD64 3000+ bundle with Asus K8V Deluxe and CoolerMaster HSF for $380--a few bucks cheaper than NewEgg with cheaper shipping (to Hawaii anyhow...) Last edited by CynJon : 02-23-2004 at 11:51 PM.

02-24-2004, 01:59 PM	#8
pain2010 Lieutenant Junior Grade Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: in the dog house. Posts: 129	Just make sure the Asus K8V Deluxe is the newest one becase they had problems with capasitor ( spelling sucks) when they frist came out.

02-27-2004, 08:31 PM	#10
pain2010 Lieutenant Junior Grade Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: in the dog house. Posts: 129	Kingston HyperX is 119.00 at best buy right now.

02-27-2004, 11:01 PM	#11
CynJon Commander Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The middle of the country Posts: 1,424	Well, I went ahead and ordered the A64 3000+, Asus K8V Deluxe, 1 GB of Corsair XMS PC3200, and one of the new style Chieftec cases from NewEgg. Everything is actually here in Hawaii already, since yesterday, but farking FedEx holds everything for a full day before they put it on the truck. Bastages! So it should all be delivered Monday. I even called and tried to pick it up at FedEx today and they said I couldn't. So basically, I pay for FedEx two day shipping and get my order six days after it is picked up from NewEgg. Suckage. Oh well, it gives me the weekend to pull what I need off my current computer for the swapover. I'll update once I get it up and running. Thanks everyone, for the input!

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