Apple 'stunned' by rival's software 'hack'

Merlin · 07-30-2004, 07:06 AM

Apple 'stunned' by rival's software 'hack'
By Paul Taylor in New York
Financial Times ; Jul 30, 2004

Apple Computer indicated yesterday that it may take legal action against RealNetworks as a battle over the technology standards used to download online music on to digital music players - including Apple's highly successful iPod device - boiled over.

In a scathing statement Apple said it was "stunned" by RealNetwork's decision to launch a version of its media player software that unlocks Apple's proprietary technology and makes it possible for people to listen to songs bought at RealNetwork's online music store on iPod devices as well as rival machines.

Apple accused its Seattle-based rival of adopting "the tactics and ethics of a hacker" to break into the iPod, with the release of a trial version of RealPlayer 10.5 earlier this week. "We are investigating the [legal] implications," the computer company added.

Apple's iPod players dominate the portable music player market, but until this week users have only been able to download music from Apple's iTunes store. Together, the iPod player and iTunes music store have become significant contributors to Apple's financial performance, offsetting lacklustre computer sales.

The latest version of the RealPlayer software includes RealNetwork's "Harmony" digital rights management technology, which is at the centre of the dispute. The technology automatically changes the format of songs downloaded from RealNetworks online music store so they can play on an iPod.

Yesterday, RealNetworks defended the Harmony technology. "Consumers, and not Apple, should be the ones choosing what music goes on their iPod," the company said in a statement.

"Harmony follows in a well-established tradition of fully legal, independently developed paths to achieve compatibility, RealNetworks said, and the technology "does not remove or disable any digital rights management system".

Yesterday however, Apple warned that it may try to thwart the Harmony initiative by tweaking the code used on the iPod.

Apple, which has refused requests to license its Fairplay digital rights software to companies wanting to build iPod compatibility into their services, said it was investigating the implications of RealNetwork's move under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and other laws.

© Copyright The Financial Times Ltd

DarkFury · 07-30-2004, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

Together, the iPod player and iTunes music store have become significant contributors to Apple's financial performance, offsetting lacklustre computer sales.

I guess Ribitch's "grass roots" marketing just wasn't enough huh?

(j/k Ribitch...

)

Maarchk · 07-30-2004, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

Apple, which has refused requests to license its Fairplay digital rights software to companies wanting to build iPod compatibility into their services, said it was investigating the implications of RealNetwork's move under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and other laws.

© Copyright The Financial Times Ltd

The DMCA has to be the worst law i have ever seen... I wish my senators were not so old that they didnt know what digital meant.

seqiro · 07-30-2004, 08:26 AM

DMCA notwithstanding, it's perfectly reasonable to expect Apple to be angered by Real.

Real comes up with a hack (and I don't mean this in the illegal sense) that allows their files to be played on the iPod. For now that is. What happens when Apple updates the iPod's firmware, which they do on occasion? Apple has no responsibility to make sure that an unlicensed hack by Real is still going to work.

So even if it isn't an intentional move by Apple, the hack might stop working. And who do you suppose is going to get the phone calls when that happens? Apple tech support. Now Apple has to explain that those files aren't going to work because they are not authorized. That's not going to go over well with average consumer who is more likely to believe his or her iPod is broken and not the files being played on it.

So Apple may sell more iPods because of Real's maneuver, but these are not the sales they are going to want in the long run.

Real asked Apple for the keys to Fairplay, Apple said 'no', and Real should just deal with it.

DarkFury · 07-30-2004, 08:56 AM

And folks wonder what we hate Apple so much in their "proprietary mindset"...

Sell the item... and let folks decide what they want to use it for. (But oh well... I say let 'em keep their little "toys".

)

seqiro · 07-30-2004, 09:30 AM

Well, they've licensed to HP and now Motorola. Maybe Apple wants to pick who their partners are. And just maybe Real--masters of spyware, buffering, and machine crashing--is not someone they want to be associated with.

Merlin · 07-30-2004, 09:41 AM

Just download from Kazaa and you won't have any problems. Pirated MP3s work on all platforms. And they wonder why p2p has been such a problem for them.

The Biffer · 07-30-2004, 09:44 AM

Quote:

DMCA notwithstanding, it's perfectly reasonable to expect Apple to be angered by Real.
Real comes up with a hack (and I don't mean this in the illegal sense) that allows their files to be played on the iPod. For now that is. What happens when Apple updates the iPod's firmware, which they do on occasion? Apple has no responsibility to make sure that an unlicensed hack by Real is still going to work.

So even if it isn't an intentional move by Apple, the hack might stop working. And who do you suppose is going to get the phone calls when that happens? Apple tech support. Now Apple has to explain that those files aren't going to work because they are not authorized. That's not going to go over well with average consumer who is more likely to believe his or her iPod is broken and not the files being played on it.

So Apple may sell more iPods because of Real's maneuver, but these are not the sales they are going to want in the long run.

Real asked Apple for the keys to Fairplay, Apple said 'no', and Real should just deal with it.

Well if your going to bust out your MBA marketing logic, you're going to confuse a lot of people. I thought the rule on the forum was to rile against "the man", and blame "the man" for keeping people down?

Having said that, iPod is one of the few areas where Apple are "the man", the rest of the IT market they are the valient small firm fighting against Microsoft!

LPMiller · 07-30-2004, 09:50 AM

Having Real on your side is like lining up at the battlefield, grabbing your shoulder mounted missle launcher, and seeing Satan is the guy holding your ammo.

But Apple really shouldn't be surprised by this. The ipod is the one player that doesn't support DRM'd WMA files, which is really, really stupid. Form and function is one thing, but people want utility too, and if music sales online is to have any hope, it needs to be as cross platform as possible.

redcolours · 07-30-2004, 03:19 PM

cross-platform issues aside, i just wanna ask a simple question:
why the heck are people still using real media files?

(buffering...12%)

LPMiller · 07-30-2004, 04:29 PM

Because evil tends to call the stupid. And the stupid always answer.

Bires · 07-30-2004, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redcolours

why the heck are people still using real media files?

EXACTLY!

Is there ANYONE that actually likes Realmedia? Realjukebox is poop. Not *the* poop. Just poop.

bachviet · 07-30-2004, 08:32 PM

Oh yeah like I could afford the iPod anyway.

fallout1 · 07-31-2004, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redcolours

cross-platform issues aside, i just wanna ask a simple question:
why the heck are people still using real media files?

Seriously..RealMedia sucks..I only use it on the once in a blue moon scenario of needing to stream a .rm..Other than that it's BLOATWARE!!!

Tommy Boomfiger · 07-31-2004, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallout1

Seriously..RealMedia sucks..I only use it on the once in a blue moon scenario of needing to stream a .rm..Other than that it's BLOATWARE!!!

Instead of using Reals player, try media player classic with "real alternative" codecs. It works with almost all real formats.

07-30-2004, 07:06 AM	#1
Merlin Admiral Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Square On My Arse Posts: 7,410	Apple 'stunned' by rival's software 'hack' Apple 'stunned' by rival's software 'hack' By Paul Taylor in New York Financial Times ; Jul 30, 2004 Apple Computer indicated yesterday that it may take legal action against RealNetworks as a battle over the technology standards used to download online music on to digital music players - including Apple's highly successful iPod device - boiled over. In a scathing statement Apple said it was "stunned" by RealNetwork's decision to launch a version of its media player software that unlocks Apple's proprietary technology and makes it possible for people to listen to songs bought at RealNetwork's online music store on iPod devices as well as rival machines. Apple accused its Seattle-based rival of adopting "the tactics and ethics of a hacker" to break into the iPod, with the release of a trial version of RealPlayer 10.5 earlier this week. "We are investigating the [legal] implications," the computer company added. Apple's iPod players dominate the portable music player market, but until this week users have only been able to download music from Apple's iTunes store. Together, the iPod player and iTunes music store have become significant contributors to Apple's financial performance, offsetting lacklustre computer sales. The latest version of the RealPlayer software includes RealNetwork's "Harmony" digital rights management technology, which is at the centre of the dispute. The technology automatically changes the format of songs downloaded from RealNetworks online music store so they can play on an iPod. Yesterday, RealNetworks defended the Harmony technology. "Consumers, and not Apple, should be the ones choosing what music goes on their iPod," the company said in a statement. "Harmony follows in a well-established tradition of fully legal, independently developed paths to achieve compatibility, RealNetworks said, and the technology "does not remove or disable any digital rights management system". Yesterday however, Apple warned that it may try to thwart the Harmony initiative by tweaking the code used on the iPod. Apple, which has refused requests to license its Fairplay digital rights software to companies wanting to build iPod compatibility into their services, said it was investigating the implications of RealNetwork's move under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and other laws. © Copyright The Financial Times Ltd __________________

07-30-2004, 08:26 AM	#4
seqiro Commander Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western MA Posts: 1,183	DMCA notwithstanding, it's perfectly reasonable to expect Apple to be angered by Real. Real comes up with a hack (and I don't mean this in the illegal sense) that allows their files to be played on the iPod. For now that is. What happens when Apple updates the iPod's firmware, which they do on occasion? Apple has no responsibility to make sure that an unlicensed hack by Real is still going to work. So even if it isn't an intentional move by Apple, the hack might stop working. And who do you suppose is going to get the phone calls when that happens? Apple tech support. Now Apple has to explain that those files aren't going to work because they are not authorized. That's not going to go over well with average consumer who is more likely to believe his or her iPod is broken and not the files being played on it. So Apple may sell more iPods because of Real's maneuver, but these are not the sales they are going to want in the long run. Real asked Apple for the keys to Fairplay, Apple said 'no', and Real should just deal with it. __________________ Paul Beasi

07-30-2004, 09:50 AM	#9
LPMiller Chief News Editor & Master of His Domain Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Minnesota Posts: 8,161	Having Real on your side is like lining up at the battlefield, grabbing your shoulder mounted missle launcher, and seeing Satan is the guy holding your ammo. But Apple really shouldn't be surprised by this. The ipod is the one player that doesn't support DRM'd WMA files, which is really, really stupid. Form and function is one thing, but people want utility too, and if music sales online is to have any hope, it needs to be as cross platform as possible. __________________ lpmiller Chief News Editor Nobel Prize Nominee Reverend in the Universal Life Church Once Shot A Man For Snoring Too Loud Way Too Lazy To Change His Signature "The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference." - Calvin and Hobbes

07-30-2004, 03:19 PM	#10
redcolours in living colour Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: above a raging c Posts: 1,739	cross-platform issues aside, i just wanna ask a simple question: why the heck are people still using real media files? (buffering...12%) __________________ there are pictures, but no,nothing happens on my site.

07-30-2004, 08:32 PM	#13
bachviet What's Da Pho*? Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SoCal (714) Posts: 13,296	Oh yeah like I could afford the iPod anyway. __________________ Dell Dimension 9200 \| Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz) \| 4x1GB DDR2 \| 256MB nVidia GeForce 8800GT Dell Studio 17 \| Intel Core i7-720QM (1.6GHz) \| 2x2GB DDR3 1066MHz \| 1GHz ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Intel P4-C 3.0GHz \| ECS 865PE-A \| 3x512MB PC3200 \| 128MB PNY GeForce 6600GT

07-30-2004, 08:56 AM	#5
DarkFury Secretary of the Navy Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Chillin' N Da 'Hood Posts: 34,997	And folks wonder what we hate Apple so much in their "proprietary mindset"... Sell the item... and let folks decide what they want to use it for. (But oh well... I say let 'em keep their little "toys". )

07-30-2004, 09:30 AM	#6
seqiro Commander Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western MA Posts: 1,183	Well, they've licensed to HP and now Motorola. Maybe Apple wants to pick who their partners are. And just maybe Real--masters of spyware, buffering, and machine crashing--is not someone they want to be associated with.

07-30-2004, 09:41 AM	#7
Merlin Admiral Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Square On My Arse Posts: 7,410	Just download from Kazaa and you won't have any problems. Pirated MP3s work on all platforms. And they wonder why p2p has been such a problem for them.

07-30-2004, 04:29 PM	#11
LPMiller Chief News Editor & Master of His Domain Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Minnesota Posts: 8,161	Because evil tends to call the stupid. And the stupid always answer.

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