320GB RAID 0 or 250GB SATA HDD?

Hypnotist · 11-29-2004, 06:02 PM

Gonna buy a Dell 8400 TONIGHT!

Need to know why one is better than the other, (320 RAID 0 or 250 SATA). Business use and multimedia applications. Please Help!

Thanks in advance,

Brad

shocky123 · 11-29-2004, 07:16 PM

Unless you are getting a 2nd or 3rd 320Gb hard drive, then there is no point in getting the RAID 0 setup. I would go with the 250 SATA, it's probably faster in terms of RPM, and is probably a better built drive(though this is Dell..)
I doubt you'll ever need the 'performance' gain that you'd get from RAID'ing the drives unless you get into DVD/Video editing or other intensive hobbies such as this.
But, if you need the 320G instead of the 250G... go for it, RAID'ing is always fun, though often not necessary

bachviet · 11-29-2004, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocky123

Unless you are getting a 2nd or 3rd 320Gb hard drive, then there is no point in getting the RAID 0 setup. I would go with the 250 SATA, it's probably faster in terms of RPM, and is probably a better built drive(though this is Dell..)
I doubt you'll ever need the 'performance' gain that you'd get from RAID'ing the drives unless you get into DVD/Video editing or other intensive hobbies such as this.
But, if you need the 320G instead of the 250G... go for it, RAID'ing is always fun, though often not necessary

I don't think the 250GB SATA has faster RPM than the PATA drives since they are all 7200RPM. It might perform better due to the bus speed and seek time though.

BTW I would go for the SATA drive.

LegendKiller · 11-29-2004, 08:03 PM

RAID 0 is a waste of time. www.storagereview.com had a great article detailing how useless it is.

LK

Bires · 11-29-2004, 08:36 PM

On the other hand...

I have used a RAID 0 array (two 8MB cache 40G Maxtors) for the last four years, and it has a steady throughput of 50-55MB/s. It's never crashed (on a promise Fasttrak card) and significantly reduces load times in games.

I use for for my swapfiles, temp directories, and games.

That being said, never boot on a RAID array. It's too easy for windows to botch the drivers, keeping your array from booting into windows.

Your best bet would a serial ATA boot drive, and a RAID 0 array for games, temp directory, esc.

LegendKiller · 11-29-2004, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bires

On the other hand...

I have used a RAID 0 array (two 8MB cache 40G Maxtors) for the last four years, and it has a steady throughput of 50-55MB/s. It's never crashed (on a promise Fasttrak card) and significantly reduces load times in games.

I use for for my swapfiles, temp directories, and games.

That being said, never boot on a RAID array. It's too easy for windows to botch the drivers, keeping your array from booting into windows.

Your best bet would a serial ATA boot drive, and a RAID 0 array for games, temp directory, esc.

Repeat after me RAID0 does almost NOTHING it is a marketing gimmick!!!!!!!

LK

Hypnotist · 11-29-2004, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LegendKiller:
Repeat after me RAID0 does almost NOTHING it is a marketing gimmick!!!!!!!

I'm concerned about the data loss and other safety issues.

Found with the help of the LegendKiller...

Quote:

PC Guide said:
Regular PCs: Most "regular PC users" do not need RAID, and the extra cost of one or more additional hard drives is usually not justified. Most individuals who set up RAID on regular PCs cannot afford hardware RAID and SCSI drives, so they use software RAID or inexpensive IDE/ATA RAID controllers. They are typically setting up RAID solely for performance reasons, and choose RAID 0. Unfortunately, RAID 0 just doesn't improve performance all that much for the way typical PCs are used; I often see gamers setting up RAID 0 systems when most games will take little advantage of it. Meanwhile, the RAID 0 array puts all of the user's data in jeopardy.

LK... I think you're right!

shocky123 · 11-29-2004, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendKiller

RAID 0 is a waste of time. www.storagereview.com had a great article detailing how useless it is.

LK

I agree completely, you nailed it right on LK.
It is quite useless. The only time people play with it is when they have tons of disks and just want to benchmark. It has no practical use.
So I'd stick with the SATA as I mentioned before.

Hypnotist · 11-30-2004, 01:09 PM

Thanks guys for the advice!

Here's what I got... more than I really need now, but oh well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Order detail - order placed 2004-11-29 23:42:21

Dimension 8400
Pentium® 4 Processor 560 with HT Technology (3.60GHz, 800 FSB), Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Qty: 1
Unit Price: $3,590.00
Dimension 8400 Pentium® 4 Processor 560 with HT Technology (3.60GHz, 800 FSB)
S368H
[221-5713]

Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M)
1GB5
[311-3978]

Keyboard Dell Wireless Keyboard and Optical Mouse
WIREKM
[310-4164]

Monitor SAVE $150! 20.1 in 2001FP Digital Flat Panel
2001FPP
[463-0999]

Video Card 256MB PCI Express™ x16 Nvidia® GeForce 6800 GTO Graphics Card
256GT68
[320-4076]

Hard Drive 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
250S
[341-1058]

Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices 3.5 in Floppy Drive
FD
[340-8628]

Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
WPXP
[412-0409]
[412-0688]
[463-2282]
[420-4838]
[420-4927]

Mouse Mouse included in Dell Wireless Package
N
[310-1966]

Network Interface Integrated Gigabit Ethernet
IN
[430-0742]

Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem
DFAX
[313-2279]

Document Management Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
AAREAD
[412-0705]

CD ROM/DVD ROM Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write capability
DV16DVR
[313-3008]
[420-4919]

Sound Card Sound Blaster Audigy™2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394
SBA2
[313-3039]
[313-2720]

Speakers Dell 5650 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System with Subwoofer
D5650
[313-2246]

Productivity Software Microsoft Office Basic - Includes Outlook, Word, Excel
BASICC
[412-0449]

Security Software McAfee Security Center w/VirusScan,Firewall and Privacy,1-year subscription
MCAFE1Y
[412-0634]

Digital Music Dell Jukebox PLUS - Rip and burn your CDs faster, print CD labels, and more
MMPLUS
[412-0692]

Digital Photography Paint Shop™ Pro® Trial plus Photo Album™ Starter Edition
DPS
[412-0521]

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options SAVE $80 instantly with the Premium Service Package plus Nights and Weekend
QDHS4
[950-7447]
[412-0359]
[980-5858]
[980-5869]
[412-0358]
[960-2800]
[900-9773]
[960-3870]
[902-0653]

Dial-up Internet Access 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
AOLDHS
[412-0585]
[412-0625]
[420-3224]
[412-0687]

Operating System Enhancements Microsoft® Plus! Digital Media Edition
DME
[412-4000]

Enhanced Software for CD or DVD Burner RecordNow! Deluxe - Burn, Copy and Label CDs
RNDLX
[430-0949]

Tracer Skus Award Winning Service and Support
D84F1
[463-5441]

Dell Media Experience Dell Media Experience™ Deluxe
DMXDLX
[412-0671]

Dell Home Customers: ONLINE ONLY: Save 30% on the purchase of a Dimension™ desktop priced at $1799 or more (before tax and shipping)! (affiliate only online offer)
Expires on 2004-12-02 05:59:59 - $1,077.00

Belkin SurgeMaster Gold - 10 Outlet with Coax (for Broadband) Qty: 1
Unit Price: $39.00

Dell AIO Inkjet 942
Dell Photo All-in-One Printer 942 Qty: 1
Unit Price: $174.00
Dell All In One Inkjet 942 Dell Photo All-in-One Printer 942
UP942
[463-5308]

Cables for Dell Printers Dell USB Printer Cable - 10 ft black
USBPRBX
[310-4168]

Dell Ink Cartridges Dell High Capacity Black Print Cartridge 942
THYB942
[310-5896]

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 2Yr Ltd. Warranty- Advance Exchange
AE2YR
[902-7310]
[900-5101]
[960-2840]
[900-8291]

ADDITIONAL DISCOUNTS AND COUPONS

Dell Home Customers: Get free ground (3-5 day) shipping on peripheral items over $59!
Expires on 2004-12-02 05:59:59 - $14.00

Dell Home Customers: FREE 3-5 day shipping with purchase of ANY new Dell Home System! Limited time offer.
Expires on 2004-12-23 06:00:00 - $99.00

Sub-Total $2,664.35
Shipping Discount -$113.00

Shipping $5.50

Tax $0.00
Total $2,669.85

verve247 · 11-30-2004, 01:30 PM

don't forget to use a delf coupon in the got deals section.

Bires · 11-30-2004, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendKiller

Repeat after me RAID0 does almost NOTHING it is a marketing gimmick!!!!!!!

LK

Then don't use it.

I have noticed, in my systems, thay my RAID drives, with 16K stripes load faster (and bench higher) than single-drives.

So, I'm glad you have done your homework, and are a happy nonRAIDer, but in my computers, I save a few seconds each time I load a map, start a game, or quick save.

Eh. That's just me. I also buy premium gasoline from Chevron, take daily multivitamins, and wash my vegetables before I eat them, but I guess I'm just wierd.

eSDee · 11-30-2004, 04:58 PM

I say get the RAID

LegendKiller · 11-30-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bires

Then don't use it.

I have noticed, in my systems, thay my RAID drives, with 16K stripes load faster (and bench higher) than single-drives.

So, I'm glad you have done your homework, and are a happy nonRAIDer, but in my computers, I save a few seconds each time I load a map, start a game, or quick save.

Eh. That's just me. I also buy premium gasoline from Chevron, take daily multivitamins, and wash my vegetables before I eat them, but I guess I'm just wierd.

Ever think that the faster startup times could be due to you using an old install vs new on the drives? Ever actually TIME it and average accross 10-15 fresh installs to check? A lot of percieved differences are actually not differences at all.

Then again, people spend a couple grand on a 1ft cable to connect stereo equipment and claim a difference.

Showtime · 11-30-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendKiller

Then again, people spend a couple grand on a 1ft cable to connect stereo equipment and claim a difference.

I can hear the difference!

-j

Bires · 11-30-2004, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendKiller

Ever actually TIME it and average accross 10-15 fresh installs to check?

Doing that right now, actually. I timed the load times for UT2004 and Kohan2 on my RAID 0 array (40x2). I'm currently in the process of Ghosting the array onto a single 8MB cache 80GB Maxtor. (that step is really taking a lot of time)

...stay tuned...

so far:
RAID Array:
UT2004 cold boot: 19 seconds
UT2004 repeated boot: 4 seconds

Kohan2 cold boot: 20 seconds
Kohan2 repeated boot: 15 seconds

Hypnotist · 11-30-2004, 06:27 PM

I'd never bought anything from Dell before, and according to 2 recent emails from them, I still haven't! Proverbial bank SNAFU. If Dell had chosen to end the 30% off +$1799 deal this morning (as was promoted), I would have drawn & 1/4'd my banker! The way I understand the front page here, Dell extended the deal 'til 12/1. Boy is that banker lucky. Anyway, I've straightened his A$$ out and so let me ask (since I've got a little breathing room)....... are there ANY other stackable coupons, discounts, freebies, rebates, incentives, cash-backs, goodies, perks, once-in-a-lifetime-opportunities or better looking Dellfs that I could plug into (this deal) before I pull the trigger again?

Thanx...

Brad

Bires · 11-30-2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bires

RAID Array:
UT2004 cold boot: 19 seconds
UT2004 repeated boot: 4 seconds

Kohan2 cold boot: 20 seconds
Kohan2 repeated boot: 15 seconds

80G 8MB cache Maxtor:
UT2004 cold boot: 20 seconds
UT2004 repeated boot: 4 seconds

Kohan2 cold boot: 20 seconds
Kohan2 repeated boot: 6 seconds (!)

Well...it takes a big man to admit he's wrong. Unfortunately, I'm only 5'11".

Fun little experiment.

LegendKiller · 11-30-2004, 11:05 PM

Its interesting that even in real-world situations RAID didn't do as much as people think. I am going to start mentioning in the reviews how pointless RAID is while we are missing features like improved hardware audio like SoundStorm and using codec's.

LK

11-29-2004, 06:02 PM	#1
Hypnotist Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: At this very moment... Uppermost in Your MIND Posts: 862	320GB RAID 0 or 250GB SATA HDD? Gonna buy a Dell 8400 TONIGHT! Need to know why one is better than the other, (320 RAID 0 or 250 SATA). Business use and multimedia applications. Please Help! Thanks in advance, Brad __________________ I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

11-29-2004, 07:16 PM	#2
shocky123 Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ames, Iowa Posts: 828	Unless you are getting a 2nd or 3rd 320Gb hard drive, then there is no point in getting the RAID 0 setup. I would go with the 250 SATA, it's probably faster in terms of RPM, and is probably a better built drive(though this is Dell..) I doubt you'll ever need the 'performance' gain that you'd get from RAID'ing the drives unless you get into DVD/Video editing or other intensive hobbies such as this. But, if you need the 320G instead of the 250G... go for it, RAID'ing is always fun, though often not necessary __________________ "me awaits onslaught of estrogen fury." -CornMonkey "5. When your friend dates a woman that is absolutely terrible for him, and she's wrecking his life, it's your duty to openly hate her, and point out how evil she is." -ialsohaveadream

11-29-2004, 08:36 PM	#5
Bires Admiral Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 5,064	On the other hand... I have used a RAID 0 array (two 8MB cache 40G Maxtors) for the last four years, and it has a steady throughput of 50-55MB/s. It's never crashed (on a promise Fasttrak card) and significantly reduces load times in games. I use for for my swapfiles, temp directories, and games. That being said, never boot on a RAID array. It's too easy for windows to botch the drivers, keeping your array from booting into windows. Your best bet would a serial ATA boot drive, and a RAID 0 array for games, temp directory, esc. __________________ Five years...

11-30-2004, 01:30 PM	#10
verve247 Commander Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,486	don't forget to use a delf coupon in the got deals section. __________________ Vegetarian - Old indian word meaning poor hunter.

11-30-2004, 04:58 PM	#12
eSDee Old Skooler Numba 1 Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Diego Posts: 10,063	I say get the RAID __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3 days ~ Willie Nelson 3 days I dread to see arrive 3 days I hate to be alive 3 days filled with tears and sorrow yesterday today and tomorrow

11-29-2004, 08:03 PM	#4
LegendKiller Vice Admiral Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,927	RAID 0 is a waste of time. www.storagereview.com had a great article detailing how useless it is. LK

11-30-2004, 01:09 PM	#9
Hypnotist Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: At this very moment... Uppermost in Your MIND Posts: 862	Thanks guys for the advice! Here's what I got... more than I really need now, but oh well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Order detail - order placed 2004-11-29 23:42:21 Dimension 8400 Pentium® 4 Processor 560 with HT Technology (3.60GHz, 800 FSB), Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Qty: 1 Unit Price: $3,590.00 Dimension 8400 Pentium® 4 Processor 560 with HT Technology (3.60GHz, 800 FSB) S368H [221-5713] Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M) 1GB5 [311-3978] Keyboard Dell Wireless Keyboard and Optical Mouse WIREKM [310-4164] Monitor SAVE $150! 20.1 in 2001FP Digital Flat Panel 2001FPP [463-0999] Video Card 256MB PCI Express™ x16 Nvidia® GeForce 6800 GTO Graphics Card 256GT68 [320-4076] Hard Drive 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) 250S [341-1058] Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices 3.5 in Floppy Drive FD [340-8628] Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional WPXP [412-0409] [412-0688] [463-2282] [420-4838] [420-4927] Mouse Mouse included in Dell Wireless Package N [310-1966] Network Interface Integrated Gigabit Ethernet IN [430-0742] Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem DFAX [313-2279] Document Management Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0 AAREAD [412-0705] CD ROM/DVD ROM Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write capability DV16DVR [313-3008] [420-4919] Sound Card Sound Blaster Audigy™2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 SBA2 [313-3039] [313-2720] Speakers Dell 5650 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System with Subwoofer D5650 [313-2246] Productivity Software Microsoft Office Basic - Includes Outlook, Word, Excel BASICC [412-0449] Security Software McAfee Security Center w/VirusScan,Firewall and Privacy,1-year subscription MCAFE1Y [412-0634] Digital Music Dell Jukebox PLUS - Rip and burn your CDs faster, print CD labels, and more MMPLUS [412-0692] Digital Photography Paint Shop™ Pro® Trial plus Photo Album™ Starter Edition DPS [412-0521] Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options SAVE $80 instantly with the Premium Service Package plus Nights and Weekend QDHS4 [950-7447] [412-0359] [980-5858] [980-5869] [412-0358] [960-2800] [900-9773] [960-3870] [902-0653] Dial-up Internet Access 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0585] [412-0625] [420-3224] [412-0687] Operating System Enhancements Microsoft® Plus! Digital Media Edition DME [412-4000] Enhanced Software for CD or DVD Burner RecordNow! Deluxe - Burn, Copy and Label CDs RNDLX [430-0949] Tracer Skus Award Winning Service and Support D84F1 [463-5441] Dell Media Experience Dell Media Experience™ Deluxe DMXDLX [412-0671] Dell Home Customers: ONLINE ONLY: Save 30% on the purchase of a Dimension™ desktop priced at $1799 or more (before tax and shipping)! (affiliate only online offer) Expires on 2004-12-02 05:59:59 - $1,077.00 Belkin SurgeMaster Gold - 10 Outlet with Coax (for Broadband) Qty: 1 Unit Price: $39.00 Dell AIO Inkjet 942 Dell Photo All-in-One Printer 942 Qty: 1 Unit Price: $174.00 Dell All In One Inkjet 942 Dell Photo All-in-One Printer 942 UP942 [463-5308] Cables for Dell Printers Dell USB Printer Cable - 10 ft black USBPRBX [310-4168] Dell Ink Cartridges Dell High Capacity Black Print Cartridge 942 THYB942 [310-5896] Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 2Yr Ltd. Warranty- Advance Exchange AE2YR [902-7310] [900-5101] [960-2840] [900-8291] ADDITIONAL DISCOUNTS AND COUPONS Dell Home Customers: Get free ground (3-5 day) shipping on peripheral items over $59! Expires on 2004-12-02 05:59:59 - $14.00 Dell Home Customers: FREE 3-5 day shipping with purchase of ANY new Dell Home System! Limited time offer. Expires on 2004-12-23 06:00:00 - $99.00 Sub-Total $2,664.35 Shipping Discount -$113.00 Shipping $5.50 Tax $0.00 Total $2,669.85

11-30-2004, 06:27 PM	#16
Hypnotist Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: At this very moment... Uppermost in Your MIND Posts: 862	I'd never bought anything from Dell before, and according to 2 recent emails from them, I still haven't! Proverbial bank SNAFU. If Dell had chosen to end the 30% off +$1799 deal this morning (as was promoted), I would have drawn & 1/4'd my banker! The way I understand the front page here, Dell extended the deal 'til 12/1. Boy is that banker lucky. Anyway, I've straightened his A$$ out and so let me ask (since I've got a little breathing room)....... are there ANY other stackable coupons, discounts, freebies, rebates, incentives, cash-backs, goodies, perks, once-in-a-lifetime-opportunities or better looking Dellfs that I could plug into (this deal) before I pull the trigger again? Thanx... Brad

11-30-2004, 11:05 PM	#18
LegendKiller Vice Admiral Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,927	Its interesting that even in real-world situations RAID didn't do as much as people think. I am going to start mentioning in the reviews how pointless RAID is while we are missing features like improved hardware audio like SoundStorm and using codec's. LK

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