ATI Technologies: More AGP Products Soon.

zippyjuan · 01-23-2005, 08:59 PM

ATI Technologies: More AGP Products Soon.
ATI Confirms Commitment to AGP Bus

Category: Video

by Anton Shilov

[ 01/23/2005 | 12:14 PM ]

ATI Technologies’ executive confirmed the company’s commitment to AGP 8x bus and appropriate personal computers and said ATI would launch products for AGP shortly in an interview with a UK-based web-site. Nevertheless, it was not said whether the products would use a bridge or would feature native support.

ATI Confirms Future AGP Products

“We will have more AGP products to add to our product family very soon,” said Matt Skyner, ATI's Director of Discrete Desktop Graphics, answering Hexus.net web-site’s question whether there were any possible issues with ATI’s Rialto bridge-chip that could change the company’s product schedule.

ATI has code-named Rialto chip in its roadmaps. The Rialto is expected to allow ATI’s PCI Express visual processing units to work on AGP 8x platforms. The code-named Rialto chip was expected to be produced at one of ATI’s partners among contract chipmakers in the fourth quarter of 2004, according to certain sources, but it is still unclear when the actual products featuring the chip are expected to hit the shelves of the stores.

“In general, we think the native solution is the more effective way to go – both in AGP and PCI Express. […] I think you’ll see it [PCI Express-to-AGP bridge] over the next couple of months,” said ATI Technologies Chief Executive Officer David Orton during the most-recent financial results conference call with financial analysts in late December, 2004.

Mr. Skyner did not reveal when the new AGP graphics cards are planned to be released by ATI’s partners, but it could be within the next few weeks.

While large PC makers and OEMs are gradually transitioning their product ranges to PCI Express bus, there are a lot of end-users who would like to upgrade their graphics cards on AGP platforms. Given that there are a lot of high-end PCs with powerful processors and a lot of memory with AGP bus and it hardly makes sense for owners of such computers to migrate to PCI Express-supporting machines now, hence, graphics chips designers should have products to offer them.

PCI Express 0.11 Chips to Emerge on AGP Boards

New personal computers with PCI Express x16 bus for graphics cannot work with AGP 8x graphics cards. Older systems with AGP bus also cannot handle PCI Express x16 add-in boards. For makers of graphics chips it means they either have to ship two product lineups, which may be inefficient from economic standpoint, or develop a special bridge chip that would allow to use the same GPUs to power different graphics cards.

A chip that turns PCI Express signals to AGP signals would allow ATI’s PCI Express VPUs, such as RADEON X300, RADEON X700, RADEON X800 or newer to work in AGP systems. If the chip is able to transform AGP signals into PCI Express signals, ATI may also be able to address PCI Express market with AGP 8x chips, however, in the past ATI denounced such move of its opponent NVIDIA and may not go this route and also confirmed its commitment to “native” solutions.

AGP graphics cards powered by ATI’s RADEON X800 or RADEON X800 XL graphics processors can capture a significant part of retail AGP 8x market, as both graphics chips are made using cost-effective 110nm process technology and feature pretty competitive pricing in PCI Express segment, at the same time offering higher or inline performance compared to NVIDIA’s GeForce 6800 GT and GeForce 6800 offerings.

ATI Technologies also said it was expecting very positive Spring PCI Express refresh among large PC makers in the coming months. Currently ATI and ATI’s add-in-card partners command nearly 100% of OEM orders for PCI Express graphics cards, according to the company.

SonyGuy · 01-24-2005, 06:13 AM

AGP 8x and PCI Express 16x... so does that mean that PCI Express runs twice as fast as AGP as far as the interface between the board and the card is concerned? How would making a PCI Express to AGP card really help then? I saw where is said the chips are .11(microns right?) instead of the .13 that other chips such as r360 are manufactured with so then this would make the cards themselves run faster and probably overclock well right? Explain...

~~Cantacuzene~~ · 01-24-2005, 06:39 AM

There is next to no preformance difference between pci express and AGP. The only reason ATi is doing this is because they tried to switch their whole line over to PCI Express but realized that people aren't adopting PCI express motherboards very quickly so they weren't going to sell cards as well.

SonyGuy · 01-24-2005, 06:43 AM

In other words just trying to be different? Hm.... Here I was thinking damn now they come out with a new interface, I'll be completely obsolete in a couple of months and have to switch over...

~~Cantacuzene~~ · 01-24-2005, 07:09 AM

Well in the future PCI express will have a preformance advantage, just not right now. And PCI express allows you to run SLI eventually too. There are advantages to it, and it will be the standard, but today is not that day.

zippyjuan · 01-24-2005, 12:28 PM

Part of the reason for no benefit from PCI Express is that there is not alot of software written to take advantage of its capabilities like games. The 64bit processors are facing the same problem. As they get more common, you will see more of an advantage to having both.

nate el bueno · 01-24-2005, 04:36 PM

i'm glad to see that 8X cards are back on the market, considering i'm an amd fan, and most of the pci-e motherboards are for intel. i'm also just wondering if this is true, were the x700pro and x800pro as big as a flop as i've been hearing?

Daversinger · 01-24-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate el bueno

i'm glad to see that 8X cards are back on the market, considering i'm an amd fan, and most of the pci-e motherboards are for intel. i'm also just wondering if this is true, were the x700pro and x800pro as big as a flop as i've been hearing?

mabey/not really, because they are better than the previous card ATI made, but compared to the increase in tech. on nVidia's side yeah i'd say it didn't do much...

these cards even though the arent exactly up to par w/ 6000 series they can run every new game of 2004/2005 at the highest res. and extras etc.. with no problems at all (over 30fps at all times i mean)

Daversinger · 01-24-2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyjuan

Part of the reason for no benefit from PCI Express is that there is not alot of software written to take advantage of its capabilities like games. The 64bit processors are facing the same problem. As they get more common, you will see more of an advantage to having both.

just so nate can understand...
mabey now they will use the technology from nVidia to power their program designer software and make new games with insane graphics that newer graphics cards are just barely are able to handle. lol don't all those other game/program designing machines use diff kinds of graphics enhancement systems, other than nVidia, and ATI?

hapoo · 01-24-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonyGuy

AGP 8x and PCI Express 16x... so does that mean that PCI Express runs twice as fast as AGP as far as the interface between the board and the card is concerned? How would making a PCI Express to AGP card really help then? I saw where is said the chips are .11(microns right?) instead of the .13 that other chips such as r360 are manufactured with so then this would make the cards themselves run faster and probably overclock well right? Explain...

the 8x in agp has to do with the native 1x agp speed
the 16x in pcix has to do with the native 1x pcix speed
they arnt related

bachviet · 01-24-2005, 10:04 PM

The more the merrier since I need mid range cards to come down in price. I've been eyeing the 6600GT AGP but I don't want to pay more than $150 for it.

01-23-2005, 08:59 PM	#1
zippyjuan Picture of the Day Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 8,756	ATI Technologies: More AGP Products Soon. ATI Technologies: More AGP Products Soon. ATI Confirms Commitment to AGP Bus Category: Video by Anton Shilov [ 01/23/2005 \| 12:14 PM ] ATI Technologies’ executive confirmed the company’s commitment to AGP 8x bus and appropriate personal computers and said ATI would launch products for AGP shortly in an interview with a UK-based web-site. Nevertheless, it was not said whether the products would use a bridge or would feature native support. ATI Confirms Future AGP Products “We will have more AGP products to add to our product family very soon,” said Matt Skyner, ATI's Director of Discrete Desktop Graphics, answering Hexus.net web-site’s question whether there were any possible issues with ATI’s Rialto bridge-chip that could change the company’s product schedule. ATI has code-named Rialto chip in its roadmaps. The Rialto is expected to allow ATI’s PCI Express visual processing units to work on AGP 8x platforms. The code-named Rialto chip was expected to be produced at one of ATI’s partners among contract chipmakers in the fourth quarter of 2004, according to certain sources, but it is still unclear when the actual products featuring the chip are expected to hit the shelves of the stores. “In general, we think the native solution is the more effective way to go – both in AGP and PCI Express. […] I think you’ll see it [PCI Express-to-AGP bridge] over the next couple of months,” said ATI Technologies Chief Executive Officer David Orton during the most-recent financial results conference call with financial analysts in late December, 2004. Mr. Skyner did not reveal when the new AGP graphics cards are planned to be released by ATI’s partners, but it could be within the next few weeks. While large PC makers and OEMs are gradually transitioning their product ranges to PCI Express bus, there are a lot of end-users who would like to upgrade their graphics cards on AGP platforms. Given that there are a lot of high-end PCs with powerful processors and a lot of memory with AGP bus and it hardly makes sense for owners of such computers to migrate to PCI Express-supporting machines now, hence, graphics chips designers should have products to offer them. PCI Express 0.11 Chips to Emerge on AGP Boards New personal computers with PCI Express x16 bus for graphics cannot work with AGP 8x graphics cards. Older systems with AGP bus also cannot handle PCI Express x16 add-in boards. For makers of graphics chips it means they either have to ship two product lineups, which may be inefficient from economic standpoint, or develop a special bridge chip that would allow to use the same GPUs to power different graphics cards. A chip that turns PCI Express signals to AGP signals would allow ATI’s PCI Express VPUs, such as RADEON X300, RADEON X700, RADEON X800 or newer to work in AGP systems. If the chip is able to transform AGP signals into PCI Express signals, ATI may also be able to address PCI Express market with AGP 8x chips, however, in the past ATI denounced such move of its opponent NVIDIA and may not go this route and also confirmed its commitment to “native” solutions. AGP graphics cards powered by ATI’s RADEON X800 or RADEON X800 XL graphics processors can capture a significant part of retail AGP 8x market, as both graphics chips are made using cost-effective 110nm process technology and feature pretty competitive pricing in PCI Express segment, at the same time offering higher or inline performance compared to NVIDIA’s GeForce 6800 GT and GeForce 6800 offerings. ATI Technologies also said it was expecting very positive Spring PCI Express refresh among large PC makers in the coming months. Currently ATI and ATI’s add-in-card partners command nearly 100% of OEM orders for PCI Express graphics cards, according to the company. __________________ I add new pictures to my photo gallery pretty regularly. You can see them here if you are interested: http://www.pbase.com/jeffryz

01-24-2005, 06:13 AM	#2
SonyGuy Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: NC Posts: 903	AGP 8x and PCI Express 16x... so does that mean that PCI Express runs twice as fast as AGP as far as the interface between the board and the card is concerned? How would making a PCI Express to AGP card really help then? I saw where is said the chips are .11(microns right?) instead of the .13 that other chips such as r360 are manufactured with so then this would make the cards themselves run faster and probably overclock well right? Explain... __________________ AMD Athlon XP2100+(1.73Ghz)@XP2800+(2.25Ghz) Abit KD7 Raid 512MB PC2700 80GB WD 8mb Abit 256mb 9600XT @ Core- 575/500 Mem- 320/300 VGA Silencer and Copper RAM Sinks

01-24-2005, 10:04 PM	#11
bachviet What's Da Pho*? Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SoCal (714) Posts: 13,296	The more the merrier since I need mid range cards to come down in price. I've been eyeing the 6600GT AGP but I don't want to pay more than $150 for it. __________________ Dell Dimension 9200 \| Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz) \| 4x1GB DDR2 \| 256MB nVidia GeForce 8800GT Dell Studio 17 \| Intel Core i7-720QM (1.6GHz) \| 2x2GB DDR3 1066MHz \| 1GHz ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 Intel P4-C 3.0GHz \| ECS 865PE-A \| 3x512MB PC3200 \| 128MB PNY GeForce 6600GT

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01-24-2005, 06:39 AM	#3
~~Cantacuzene~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA Posts: 8,700	There is next to no preformance difference between pci express and AGP. The only reason ATi is doing this is because they tried to switch their whole line over to PCI Express but realized that people aren't adopting PCI express motherboards very quickly so they weren't going to sell cards as well.

01-24-2005, 06:43 AM	#4
SonyGuy Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: NC Posts: 903	In other words just trying to be different? Hm.... Here I was thinking damn now they come out with a new interface, I'll be completely obsolete in a couple of months and have to switch over...

01-24-2005, 07:09 AM	#5
~~Cantacuzene~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA Posts: 8,700	Well in the future PCI express will have a preformance advantage, just not right now. And PCI express allows you to run SLI eventually too. There are advantages to it, and it will be the standard, but today is not that day.

01-24-2005, 12:28 PM	#6
zippyjuan Picture of the Day Guru Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 8,756	Part of the reason for no benefit from PCI Express is that there is not alot of software written to take advantage of its capabilities like games. The 64bit processors are facing the same problem. As they get more common, you will see more of an advantage to having both.

01-24-2005, 04:36 PM	#7
nate el bueno Spawn of Markel Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: IL Posts: 1,246	i'm glad to see that 8X cards are back on the market, considering i'm an amd fan, and most of the pci-e motherboards are for intel. i'm also just wondering if this is true, were the x700pro and x800pro as big as a flop as i've been hearing?

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