cheapie

I'm doing a bunch of research on the Klipsch Reference series speakers, specifically the RB-35, RS-35, and RC-35 speakers. I have read TONS of reviews that say "well....i don't like them but if you're a fan of lively, active, tinny, horn, etc. speakers....then yada yada yada." also, i think i've found out that you REALLY don't want to match up a yamaha receiver with it.

sigh....i'm more frustrated then ever. i've demo'd the klipsch at BB but don't really know what to listen for. i've listened to the infinitis at CC and liked them but i have really no idea what i'm listening for. compounding the problem is that if i do a search for the best $1500 system on a forum, that price is generally what the average person would pay instead of a savvy apexer that isn't going to pay half msrp.

somebody just tell me what to buy. please. i'll send you $1500. just find me the best 6.1 bookshelf system and ship it to me minus the sub. don't give me any options at all.

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psycho-

On a slightly unrelated note: I was going to get nicer speakers, but my friend works for Bose, and I'll settle for lifestyle speakers...esp. at the price I'm gettin' them for.

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AlpineJay

While I have been really behind on product knowledge recently, my experience with Klipsch has always been that their tweeters sound too metallic and harsh for my ears, which I believe is a generic complaint that people have on Klipsch speakers.

Sorry you're so frustrated and that I can't help too much. Paging Apex for rescue (well, when he comes back anyway)....

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thekidrocks

Klipsch speakers are a odd beast. The current models are much more neutral and natural sounding that their older ones - yet they still reveal flaws in the rest of the system.

I think that is the key here. Klipsch speakers can sound great if the amp/receiver and source is very clean. If there is a shortcoming in the chain (or if the electronics are also very revealing and the source is bad), they will reveal it.

ialsohaveadream

If you can't tell a difference in the sound quality, then it's not that big of a deal. If you're not enough of an audiophile to hear the difference between a $500 surround system versus a $2000 surround, why waste the extra money?

Go with whatever sounds good to you, and when you're listening to them to demo, listen for the things that will be most important to you; if you're going to listen to a lot of music, test music on them. If you love bass, put on their most bass-heavy selection and see if it sounds clear to you.

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dsuds

Klipsch speakers in general, because they use horn tweeters, tend to sound very sharp or "bright" at higher frequencies. Some people like this... I personally don't. A good test is to listen to a hard cybal crash on Klipsch speakers at a fairly high volume. Either you'll like the sound or it will grate on your nerves like fingernails on a blackboard.

If after this test you want to keep looking, then it means you probably want a "smoother" speaker. Infinity, Polk, Definitive Tech, Phase Tech, and others fall into this category. I'd stay away from lower end Infinity & Polk speakers as they made some cheap models for the Circuit City/Best Buy type stores.

My best suggestion would be to take a trip to the B&M audio store with the following:

1. A CD of some music you like and know very well, that also represents the type of music you normally listen to. Obviously rock-n-roll, classical, country & hip-hop music all have different requirements from a speaker.

2. A DVD that you know well that also represents the type of movie you like to see. Again different types of movies look for different things from your speakers.

When you are there, have the salesman use an amplifier similar or slightly better than the one you own. Don't let them use a $5000 amp unless that is what you own. Try out different speakers to get a good feel for what you like. Head-to-head it is pretty easy to tell what sounds good to you.

I did a little looking since you said you liked Infinity. Onecall has the Infinity Kappa 400's on clearance if you are interested in a floor standing speaker. I've heard good things about these speakers but have not listened to them myself. Combine these with the Kappa center and surrounds and you blow the budget by about $300 ($1803 + shipping) but the retail on this setup is almost $4400. Yeah, I know it's only 5.1 but it looks like a heck of a system.

Hope this helps.

dsuds

KCEnder

I know that i hate those speakers because for the same price you can get much better speakers in a different brand. You could pick up some nice Wharfedale or B&W's. If i were you, i would head to a local stereo store and skip BB, i worked there and i know the quality of the stuff that they have, far overpriced for what you are getting.

gear02

I think with speakers there are two tiers. The first tier is speakers for those who don't care too much about pristine audio quality or that we can't really tell. For them, you have the traditional brands and for computer speakers, the best brand withe the best reputation are Klipsch.

The second tier are the audiophiles. They can tell the small differences between speakers. For them, the brands they look at are virtually unknown to the first tier people. I remeber reading here about a group buy on some speakers I've never heard of. For this tier, Klipsch are total crap (as are most speakers tier one prefers).

I just think you need to consider who you're talking to. I'm part of tier one, and I've owned some expensive speakers (though not Klipsch). However, now I just realize that I couldn't care less about having the absolute best speakers. I just get one that's good and cheap, and right now that's a set of Logitechs that cost less than $50.

cheapie

thanks all! i do like the polk lsi series but it's VERY hard to find a deal on a system.



i've heard that elsewhere. the chain...hmmmm....i was thinking about picking up a older model denon. not sure which one. some places have great prices on some 6.1 receivers. i'd like to spend under $600 for a receiver and will likely decide on which one after i choose the speakers.

what other parts of the chain affect the sound? i have monster cable in the walls, not sure which gauge. does clean power really make that much of a difference? i was looking at that monster surge protector and it looked impressive at how it cleans up the power but i have no idea if it actually matters or not.

BrewMaster

again, it all depends on whether or not you're an audiophile with the ears to hear the difference. in my experience power filters are good and they help. but this was after an audiophile friend of mine took the time to explain to me the difference and then showed me the difference using several CDs with and without the power filter. it's interesting, but I didn't go out and buy a filter for my system because I just don't care enough. so yes, it matters and it helps, but it is up to you to decide if it is worth it.

BTW, when you're done with your basement, you'll have to takes some pics and show off your hideout.

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thekidrocks

*long wind alert!*

As far as the Denon receiver goes, before you go for it - give a higher-end Yamaha or H/K a listen. With Yamaha, be sure to go above the Best Buy product level. I bought a refurbished Denon from J&R for a new HT setup, and was on a fairly tight budget. Still I paid $350 for the B stock Denon, along with some new Athena Technologies speakers all the way around... and hated it. Strident mids and treble. It was the receiver as the weak link - switched to a good Yamaha (RX-V1400) and whoah! What a difference. The treble smoothed out nicely, and the midrange was far more "open" and natural. Bass was night and day better as well, which I didn't worry about due to the subwoofer. Ironically people fought over the Denon on eBay - I don't miss it.

Here is the twist... and it rolls over to the Klipsch speaker "debate" (used loosely). One day I was at the "uppity class" audio/video store in my area, where Paradigm, Definitive, Klipsch and Martin-Logan are their main brands. I was looking for a stereo pair, already had Paradigms that just weren't up to the task (needed a larger model - still a good brand IMHO), am partial to Definitive as I've had them in the past, plus I reviewed a pair long ago that I really enjoyed (bought the review samples - regret ever selling them).

THEN the my long-time salesman switched to a pair of Klipsch. I looked at him and said "HUH???!!?!?!?" These were NOT the old Klipsch, nor were they the junk BB sells - not by a longshot. I bought them on the spot - the Reference Series RF-5. You can't get those at BB, and they truly sounded good. Smooth, forward midrange/laid-back treble, true deep bass without a subwoofer. The receiver used was the same Yamaha RX-V1400 I already had, and tone controls/graphic EQ were set flat. They are utterly smooth and accurate - heck I have the 60Hz bass and 12KHz treble bumped up on the EQ on that Yamaha '1400 receiver which is what is driving them. Never mind the 7.1 being used as 2.0, when it works, I am happy... like the phono stage in it too

With that behind me, and still amazed that I am enjoying Klipsch speakers... I needed to find a different receiver for that HT setup I just did/redid/undid. A friend just bought an H/K, a brand which has been good for me, so I snagged a H/K 630 from OneCall for a decent price. Limited inputs, plastic front panel (UGH!), but ooooooh sooooo smooooooth at the top end. The lesser H/Ks also have a silky smooth treble, and of course the H/K authority in the bass.

Life is good - I used to have true audiophile equipment but money has been limited due a return to college not too far back. So I am starting over with the best bang for the buck I can find. Best Buy doesn't have it, but I've found some pleasant surprises.

Now as for that cable stuff - naaaaa. Is there a difference? Sometimes. Can you tell? If you have a high-ticket system carefully matched to get the best sound for your $10,000 2 channel system, yeah. Otherwise, spend it elsewhere.

thekidrocks

Oh, on the surge protector, I don't buy the claim that it makes a difference in sound. Good components should not have an issue with noise on the AC mains.

However I still use them for protection. I have a Panamax Max1000 from years ago that took a hit - saved the equipment. Was glad to pay the small fixed shipping fee for their lifetime warranty, and vowed to protect the system from them out.

I happen to have 2 Monster brand power blocks, not for the filtering, but for the surge aspect. Like I said, one of those things you do after realizing one saved your system. (beats after it would have saved your system!)

cheapie

there's a couple YAMAHA RX-V1400 receivers on ebay right now. hmmm....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

cheapie

actually one of them is a 1500. going for 529

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true

thekidrocks

I can attest to the Yamaha RX-V1400, and I see the '1500 adds some extras.

I didn't mention that when I was in the high-end store, they also sell Denon receivers. I compared the Denon I had with the Yamaha I had on those very Klipsch speakers. Ouch!

I have to emphasize that speakers are still a matter of taste. My post above about Klipsch is really to point out that they do offer better speakers than the low-end models at BB. Until last year when I purchased mine, I never cared for Klipsch speakers - even then they have grown on me.

cheapie

why ouch? was the denon that much better?

zippyjuan

Klipsch are also very efficient speakers. I have the Polk LSIs you mentioned and they are not as efficient. WIth power, they sound great. Without it, they are only OK. They do require a lot more power to sound good. I used to have a Denon with them and was disappointed. To be fair, it was a lower end Denon. I would be aware of the warranty question too as far as buying on eBay or somehwhere. Of course that is up to you, but fewer manufacturers are honoring warranties for things not purchased from authorized dealers. I am sure you have been to www.audioreview.com and the AVS forum in your research. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/ Like the others have said, there are lots of tastes in music and also in sound. If you find something that sounds good to you, that is all that matters. Nobody else will be listening to it but you. On other thing. It is hard to remember sound. If you have it narrowed down to just a couple and they are both at different stores, it is hard to go from one to the other and decide which is better because you have no real memory for sound- only that you did/did not like it.

cheapie

which LSi set do you have? and how much power is sufficient for them? do you like them?

kimchicowboy

marantz also sells really decent stuff too, no?

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thekidrocks

Oh no - the other way around! I had always held respect for Denon, so to hear the Yamaha stomp all over it was a surprise. I'd expect a subtle difference, but this was night/day. The Denon lacked bass authority to the point where you wonder if something else is wrong (like a subwoofer on, or tone controls being used). However the source and speakers were the same, both were in 2 channel stereo mode, with tone controls bypassed. I know the Yamaha also has an on-screen graphic EQ (they don't make an issue of it - but the '1400 has one with a limited adjustment range for the front L/R), but it was in bypass.

I heard pretty much the same thing in my home, but I had a subwoofer in the system - so it wasn't as obvious. That's when I bought the Yamaha, and the Denon went on eBay.

cheapie

i listened to the klipsch speakers last night. the rb-25 bookshelves which are a step below what i'm considering. and the rf-35, the floor-standing version of the bookshelves i want. wow. i really liked them. they were being driven by a denon 3805 so but i listened to those and a nicer (more expensive) set of b&w bookshelf speakers and i honestly preferred the klipsch speakers. now that i've had a chance to listen to them, my only question is do i need the floor-standing ones or will the bookshelf rb-35 be sufficient if i have a great sub. is there mid-range stuff that i'll be missing? that's what the guy was telling me at the store but i always take what they say with a grain of salt.

i'm excited. i finally am set on a brand and have a place to buy them from at a great price. now i gotta decide on receivers. hmmmm....

thekidrocks

With a decent sub (heck, a crappy sub!) a bookshelf speaker will do just fine. If the bookshelf and tower speakers have the same drivers, many times the bookshelf will have the cleaner mid-bass, which is the limit they need to run down to. Maybe if you run them as "large", the towers would have the edge - but not always.

One thing I keep in mind when looking at towers vs. bookshelf is the price of stands if I need them. For what good stands cost, sometimes the tower version makes more sense!

cheapie

run them as 'large'?

zippyjuan

When you set up your surround speakers, you select on your reciever either "Large" or "Small" for your speakers. Use "Large" for speakers capable of producing full range of sound including bass. Usually tower speakers. Then the reciever will send all frequencies (except the specific subwoofer ones) to the speakers. If you are using bookshelf speakers they generally do not produce as much bass so you will want to set it to "Small" which will cut off the bass at a certain point and send the frequencies below that to the subwoofer. By not sending these to the speakers also reduces the demands on them and will help them perform better since they are not struggling to create notes they are incapable of making. You will usually want to set the crossover on the sub to start its fequencies a little bit higher than the cutoff on the bookshelves so that the sounds overlap somewhat and blend better. Your reciever manual should tell you what is best. Also check your speaker specs to see how low they will go. As far as stands, you want the tweeter to be at ear level for your most common listening- preferably something that will not vibrate.

brainsmile

maybe it's like why aol is so popular

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"Nobody beats Vitus Gerulaitis 18 times in a row." - Vitus Gerulaitis on beating Jimmy Connors after 17 failed attempts.

ufcrusher

A "SURGE" protector does nothing for your sound or video systems, however a clean power source makes all the difference in the world. You will have higher highs, cleaner sound across the range and your video will also look much better.

If you have never used a clean power source, you have no idea what the difference is. However, an easy example is that many people notice that when the compressor on their refridgerator goes on the lights get a little brown.....this is noticeable on your set as well. If you have a true power cleaner, you will never have the "browning"/dimming of your set.

Depending on the brand and level of line conditioning that you go with, there can be seperate audio and visual cleaners. For example, I cant recall my model number, but my cleaner has 3 stage filtering for audio and video. Definitely worth what I paid for it and then some.

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