15"-17" Flat LCD Monitor

davey127 · 03-03-2002, 05:14 PM

I am looking for a deal on a Monitor. It doesnt matter what brand. Can anyone help?

zero2dash · 03-14-2002, 06:28 AM

The best overall deal I've found is eBay.

What I'm going to wind up buying off there...and what I'd probably recommend for the price...is a Dell 17" model 1702FP.

Info from Dell
They retail from Dell for $800, you can get them on eBay from most sellers (who also have a bunch of them, apparently 'cause I've seen probably 6 or 7 vendors with a good 5 to 10 current auctions for these) for between $500 and $600, most sellers also only charge between $25 and $50 for shipping. Considering that's over a $200 savings, plus you're getting a GOOD LCD flat panel...instead of a house brand or a lower-end brand (i.e. MAG, AOC, CTX) you're getting a Dell that can also take a Digital signal plus it does XGA is definitely some great reasons to buy one of these over the other brands/models out there.
Just a heads up.

If you're not looking to spend that much, I'd certainly understand 'cause that's a good chunk of change.

But consider that most stores sell a 15" LCD panel for between $350 and $400, with 17" retailing for $600+...this is the best deal for what you're getting and paying. You CAN get cheaper ones, or get a 15" if you want...that's up to you of course. I myself now have a 17" CRT on my main PC I'm on now, and I'm wanting to get a 19" monitor...well of course a 19" CRT has the same viewable size as a 17" LCD *sooooooo* I've got my mind made up.

zero2dash · 03-16-2002, 05:22 AM

After doing a TON of research on the pros/cons of LCDs compared to CRTs, I've got some news that may make you think twice about buying an LCD; it certainly did for me. I actually *ordered* the Dell 1702FP from TigerDirect; they have recertified ones for $549 and the shipping was only $19.

...

LCDs have several problems...that CRTs do not.

One of the most permanent ones is dead pixels. It seems that the general concensus is that any company who makes and sells LCD screens has some sort of warranty/return policy on dead pixels, and the majority of them use *8*. Meaning the LCD can have up to 8 dead pixels before they'll replace it. The problem with this is that of course you can't fix a dead pixel, and I've even seen some people say that their LCD screen got dead pixels over time. I'm not usually a picky person, but if I'm spending LCD-kind-of-money on something ($500+), it'd better be perfect. Problem is, that isn't the case in a good lot of LCD purchases. Doesn't matter what brand you buy, it appears that someone somewhere has bought any given LCD monitor and gotten dead pixels.

My original thought about image sizes is also sort of off...turns out that most 17" LCDs have of course a 17" viewable size but on the other hand a 19" CRT has usually an 18" viewable size. Take into consideration that you can also get flatscreen CRT monitors these days, so it's not an issue of "unusable screen borders" or "concave screens".

Now, the BIGGEST ISSUE I have with LCDs and the MAIN reason I'm not buying one is three primary components:

1.) Color/saturation and brightness issues
Ever notice how LCD monitors aren't as bright as CRTs? Or how WHITE has issues as coming up as a Warm color, i.e. orangish- or reddish- tinted? This is an LCD problem that isn't a CRT problem.

2.) Luminance and contrast ratio
Most LCD panels have between a 200 and 250 nit rating for luminance (i.e. brightness) and a contrast ratio of 250:1, 300:1, or 350:1. On the other hand, CRTs can have upwards of 700:1 contrast ratios. Why's this important? Well, the luminance is a major factor in why CRT screens are brighter than LCDs because in an LCD screen, if a color gets to a really dark point, the LCDs luminance shortcoming will force the LCD to display the dark color, say - in the example of Quake 3 Arena...a dark RED...the LCD displays it as BLACK. The contrast ratio is a big factor in image size and resolution. On that note...

3.) Resolution, refresh rates, and response times
Anyone who owns an LCD panel will tell you that LCD panels SHOULD NOT be run in ANYTHING but their NATIVE resolution. A 17" LCDs native resolution is 1280x1024...which is also (in most cases) the maximum resolution that a 17" LCD panel can go to. Problem is...it's at 60hz refresh. They can RUN at 1280x1024, 75hz but it's not the optimum resolution/refresh and therefore (apparently) is not good for the LCD display/screen itself. Meanwhile of course a 19" CRT can display usually up to 1600+ resolution, with higher refresh rates. On top of that, LCD panels usually have either a 25ms or a 50ms response time rating, the lower the better. The response time (from what I gather) has to do with the time that each of the pixels can change color, texture, or whatever. With FPS games, they run so fast but the LCD can't respond quickly enough to change said pixel...and therefore you either get blurring or blotchy colors. This is why LCDs are said to be HORRIBLE for First Person Shooters. It's also a reason why on internet sites, if you scroll down the screen you'll see the text blur until the screen stops moving.

...

Man I was really hyped about buying an LCD and like I mentioned earlier I had even ordered one. After reading of the issues when playing FPS and how CRTs were still the #1 choice for gamers, I quickly cancelled my order and am going to buy a 19" CRT sometime this weekend. One third of my computer use is gaming, FPS-style...Half-Life, Quake 3, TFC, UT and the like. And from what dozens upon dozens of LCD users have said all over the net and on newsgroups...LCDs aren't for games.

...

I just wanted to post this and let you know so that you don't buy one and wind up having these sorts of problems. I watched my friend play some UT on his SGI Widescreen flat panel last night and it ran pretty smooth but it was warm colored (i.e. 'off'), the dark backgrounds of UT were brighter than they're supposed to be (with the LCD on the default/middle settings), and it did blur a little. And his LCD has a response time of 35ms...I shudder to think of how noticeable and distracting an LCD with a 50ms response time (like the Dell 1702FP) would play FPS like...probably *really* bad.

03-14-2002, 06:28 AM	#2
zero2dash Commander Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fenton, MO - but I wish I was at the beach. ANY beach. Posts: 1,367	The best overall deal I've found is eBay. What I'm going to wind up buying off there...and what I'd probably recommend for the price...is a Dell 17" model 1702FP. Info from Dell They retail from Dell for $800, you can get them on eBay from most sellers (who also have a bunch of them, apparently 'cause I've seen probably 6 or 7 vendors with a good 5 to 10 current auctions for these) for between $500 and $600, most sellers also only charge between $25 and $50 for shipping. Considering that's over a $200 savings, plus you're getting a GOOD LCD flat panel...instead of a house brand or a lower-end brand (i.e. MAG, AOC, CTX) you're getting a Dell that can also take a Digital signal plus it does XGA is definitely some great reasons to buy one of these over the other brands/models out there. Just a heads up. If you're not looking to spend that much, I'd certainly understand 'cause that's a good chunk of change. But consider that most stores sell a 15" LCD panel for between $350 and $400, with 17" retailing for $600+...this is the best deal for what you're getting and paying. You CAN get cheaper ones, or get a 15" if you want...that's up to you of course. I myself now have a 17" CRT on my main PC I'm on now, and I'm wanting to get a 19" monitor...well of course a 19" CRT has the same viewable size as a 17" LCD sooooooo I've got my mind made up. Last edited by zero2dash : 03-14-2002 at 06:33 AM.

03-16-2002, 05:22 AM	#3
zero2dash Commander Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fenton, MO - but I wish I was at the beach. ANY beach. Posts: 1,367	GOOD reason NOT to buy an LCD. After doing a TON of research on the pros/cons of LCDs compared to CRTs, I've got some news that may make you think twice about buying an LCD; it certainly did for me. I actually ordered the Dell 1702FP from TigerDirect; they have recertified ones for $549 and the shipping was only $19. ... LCDs have several problems...that CRTs do not. One of the most permanent ones is dead pixels. It seems that the general concensus is that any company who makes and sells LCD screens has some sort of warranty/return policy on dead pixels, and the majority of them use 8. Meaning the LCD can have up to 8 dead pixels before they'll replace it. The problem with this is that of course you can't fix a dead pixel, and I've even seen some people say that their LCD screen got dead pixels over time. I'm not usually a picky person, but if I'm spending LCD-kind-of-money on something ($500+), it'd better be perfect. Problem is, that isn't the case in a good lot of LCD purchases. Doesn't matter what brand you buy, it appears that someone somewhere has bought any given LCD monitor and gotten dead pixels. My original thought about image sizes is also sort of off...turns out that most 17" LCDs have of course a 17" viewable size but on the other hand a 19" CRT has usually an 18" viewable size. Take into consideration that you can also get flatscreen CRT monitors these days, so it's not an issue of "unusable screen borders" or "concave screens". Now, the BIGGEST ISSUE I have with LCDs and the MAIN reason I'm not buying one is three primary components: 1.) Color/saturation and brightness issues Ever notice how LCD monitors aren't as bright as CRTs? Or how WHITE has issues as coming up as a Warm color, i.e. orangish- or reddish- tinted? This is an LCD problem that isn't a CRT problem. 2.) Luminance and contrast ratio Most LCD panels have between a 200 and 250 nit rating for luminance (i.e. brightness) and a contrast ratio of 250:1, 300:1, or 350:1. On the other hand, CRTs can have upwards of 700:1 contrast ratios. Why's this important? Well, the luminance is a major factor in why CRT screens are brighter than LCDs because in an LCD screen, if a color gets to a really dark point, the LCDs luminance shortcoming will force the LCD to display the dark color, say - in the example of Quake 3 Arena...a dark RED...the LCD displays it as BLACK. The contrast ratio is a big factor in image size and resolution. On that note... 3.) Resolution, refresh rates, and response times Anyone who owns an LCD panel will tell you that LCD panels SHOULD NOT be run in ANYTHING but their NATIVE resolution. A 17" LCDs native resolution is 1280x1024...which is also (in most cases) the maximum resolution that a 17" LCD panel can go to. Problem is...it's at 60hz refresh. They can RUN at 1280x1024, 75hz but it's not the optimum resolution/refresh and therefore (apparently) is not good for the LCD display/screen itself. Meanwhile of course a 19" CRT can display usually up to 1600+ resolution, with higher refresh rates. On top of that, LCD panels usually have either a 25ms or a 50ms response time rating, the lower the better. The response time (from what I gather) has to do with the time that each of the pixels can change color, texture, or whatever. With FPS games, they run so fast but the LCD can't respond quickly enough to change said pixel...and therefore you either get blurring or blotchy colors. This is why LCDs are said to be HORRIBLE for First Person Shooters. It's also a reason why on internet sites, if you scroll down the screen you'll see the text blur until the screen stops moving. ... Man I was really hyped about buying an LCD and like I mentioned earlier I had even ordered one. After reading of the issues when playing FPS and how CRTs were still the #1 choice for gamers, I quickly cancelled my order and am going to buy a 19" CRT sometime this weekend. One third of my computer use is gaming, FPS-style...Half-Life, Quake 3, TFC, UT and the like. And from what dozens upon dozens of LCD users have said all over the net and on newsgroups...LCDs aren't for games. ... I just wanted to post this and let you know so that you don't buy one and wind up having these sorts of problems. I watched my friend play some UT on his SGI Widescreen flat panel last night and it ran pretty smooth but it was warm colored (i.e. 'off'), the dark backgrounds of UT were brighter than they're supposed to be (with the LCD on the default/middle settings), and it did blur a little. And his LCD has a response time of 35ms...I shudder to think of how noticeable and distracting an LCD with a 50ms response time (like the Dell 1702FP) would play FPS like...probably really bad.

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03-03-2002, 05:14 PM	#1
davey127 Ensign Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 13	15"-17" Flat LCD Monitor I am looking for a deal on a Monitor. It doesnt matter what brand. Can anyone help?

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