Nation's capital OKs smoking ban

guiseppewv · 01-05-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Nation's capital OKs smoking ban

By Derrill Holly, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON — Smoking inside most bars and restaurants in the nation's capital would become illegal under a ban approved Wednesday by the D.C. Council.
"It's going to ban smoking virtually everywhere," Councilman Marion Barry said of the measure prohibiting smoking in most public and private buildings.

Brew pubs, bars, restaurants, taverns, nightclubs and hookah bars where patrons share communal pipes would be exempt if 10% of their total sales were generated by tobacco products. There are also exemptions for private offices, hotel rooms, medical research facilities, cigar bars and tobacco stores.

Anti-smoking advocates were generally pleased, though some vowed to seek even tougher prohibitions.

"A loophole that permits smoking in places that sell substantial amounts of cigarettes could potentially undermine this protection," said Matthew Myers, president of the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids.

The new prohibitions are expected to take effect Jan. 1, 2007. The delay is designed to give the city health department time to hire and train inspectors. It will also give some restaurant and club owners time to design and build outdoor facilities where smoking will be allowed.

"We certainly are disappointed in the council's action and we remain concerned about negative economic impact that we know a smoking ban is going to have on the district's hospitality businesses," said Andrew Kline, general counsel of the 600-member Restaurant Association Metropolitan Washington.

"The council is turning its back on the city's largest private sector industry, biggest taxpayer and major employer," said Mark Lee, a promoter who works with restaurants, bars and clubs. He urged Mayor Anthony A. Williams to veto the measure.

The mayor told reporters that he might consider that — even though it passed by a veto-proof 11-1 vote, with one member absent.

"I still would do it anyway, as a point," said Williams, who worried about the impact on the restaurant industry, a major player in the city's economy.

More than a dozen states and many more cities and counties across the country — including New York, Chicago and Dallas — have banned smoking in restaurants and bars.

At Mackey's Public House, a downtown bar, Bonnie Erickson, 26, from Washington called the ban a "terrible idea" — even though she's a non-smoker. "I feel that if there were a legitimate market for non-smoking bars, non-smoking bars would exist already, and people would go there," Erickson said.

But ex-smoker Jaimie Fitzhughe, 25, of Washington, approved of the ban. "I hate coming home at night with my hair smelling like smoke and my clothes smelling like smoke," she said.

John O'Donoghue, 39, visiting from Dublin, said he would have to find someplace to smoke. Dublin already bans smoking in pubs, but he said many owners opened beer gardens or found other ways to let people light up.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...-smoking_x.htm

Awesome!!!!! I think this is a great thing!!!!!

johnnymk · 01-05-2006, 11:57 AM

New Jersey is considering it. I can't wait till Pennsylvania brings a smoking ban bill up for vote.

mcs328 · 01-05-2006, 12:00 PM

Actually I'm divided on this. I don't like banning smoking at all even though I don't smoke at all.

Grimm · 01-05-2006, 12:13 PM

It's not a full ban, it's a restriction. Bars that want to continue to hav smoking will continue to be able to, they just need to be a bit creative. Sell single cigarettes for $2.50 with a free beer. And have beer $3.00. Bam! 50% of your sales are now tobacco. You are exempt.

guiseppewv · 01-05-2006, 12:20 PM

I do not think you can buy a beer in DC for $2.50. You definitely aren't going to be able to get a beer and a cig for $2.50.

Merlin · 01-05-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Councilman Marion Barry said of the measure prohibiting smoking in most public and private buildings

Mr. Barry the kind of smoking you do has always been prohibited.

Grimm · 01-05-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

I do not think you can buy a beer in DC for $2.50. You definitely aren't going to be able to get a beer and a cig for $2.50.

It was an example.

nickel · 01-05-2006, 01:57 PM

we have this smoking ban in NY. i absolutely love it. i attribute many a past hangover to being in a crowded bar breathing in everyone else's cigarette smoke.

Merlin · 01-05-2006, 02:00 PM

Yeah cuz all the drinking you were doing couldn't possibly be the cause.

nickel · 01-05-2006, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

Yeah cuz all the drinking you were doing couldn't possibly be the cause.

it was a toxic combination

that's my story.

guiseppewv · 01-05-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

It was an example.

That is why I winked.....it was a joke....settle down, killer.

Grimm · 01-05-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

That is why I winked.....

Oh, I thought you were trying to come on to me again...

guiseppewv · 01-05-2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

Oh, I thought you were trying to come on to me again...

No, after you turned me down I gave up.

j/k

ialsohaveadream · 01-05-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

No, after you turned me down I gave up.

j/k

Does the j/k indicate that you didn't give up?

Anyway, I'm all for the smoking ban. I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it, but it really does make going to bars so much more enjoyable. And bars that have outdoor areas can still have people smoke there.

Freelance Superhero · 01-06-2006, 02:18 AM

oh, lord... my buddy just left last night to run a campaign in maryland, and he's a chain smoker... poor guy. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Merlin · 01-06-2006, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ialsohaveadream

Anyway, I'm all for the smoking ban. I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it, but it really does make going to bars so much more enjoyable. And bars that have outdoor areas can still have people smoke there.

Oh the irony in that. Nowadays if you're in a stuffy bar and need to get a breath of fresh air the patio area is the last place you'll find it.

Jeffbx · 01-06-2006, 07:26 AM

I really wish they would do this in Michigan - especially in restaurants. Nothing worse than trying to eat while breathing stale smoke.

dougadam · 01-06-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiseppewv

Awesome!!!!! I think this is a great thing!!!!!

guiseppewv · 01-06-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffbx

I really wish they would do this in Michigan - especially in restaurants. Nothing worse than trying to eat while breathing stale smoke.

Yep, I love when the smoking and non-smoking areas aren't even seperated by a wall so the smoke from the smoking area drifts into the NS area. Nothing better than breathing stale smoke while you are trying to enjoy your meal.

jstreet · 01-06-2006, 12:25 PM

I used to be a smoker, so perhaps that's the reason I'll swing into this mode, but I don't like the ban. If the aim was truly to provide workers a place where they didn't have to breathe smoke, than that's what it should've said. There should be exemptions for restaurants/bars that have separate areas for smokers, that use air-handling equipment (that actually works), etc.

I see it all as a series of choices: someone chooses to open a restaurant or bar and how to manage smoking -- waiters and waitresses choose to apply for a job at a certain place -- patrons choose to go to a certain place.

I don't particularly think there should be any law at all, but if there is going to be one, and it's going to be sold to the public under the guise of protecting workers, than make it a law that requires management to give a worker a job in a smoke-free area if they ask for it, without fear of reprisal. If management's happy with smoke, and the workers are happy with smoke, and patrons evidently don't care enough to stop coming, then where is the problem?

riskykougra · 01-06-2006, 12:46 PM

Here in Ontario...in Canada...just to clarify...we have had a ban on smoking for a year and a half now. You cannot smoke in any bar or restaurant or workplace. Any establishment that errects a smoking area can only have 3 walls around it, it cannot be completely enclosed. At first there was alot of grumbling about lost revenue from bars and restaurants but that hasnt happened. People still go out they just smoke outside and restaurants are alot more enjoyable...especially if you have children...because you can actually taste your food and not the smoke from the people all around you. I think it was the best thing to happen...and it was the people of Ontario who decided in an election if it would pass or not and Im glad it did. I used to work in a restaurant and had to jump in the shower as soon as I got home cause i couldnt stand the smell of smoke on me anymore.

guiseppewv · 01-06-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Williams

I see it all as a series of choices: someone chooses to open a restaurant or bar and how to manage smoking -- waiters and waitresses choose to apply for a job at a certain place -- patrons choose to go to a certain place.

I disagree with this statement. Especially in reference to the waiters and waitresses - I do not think that anyone should have to work in an environment that is dangerous to their health when there is a very effective way to eliminate this danger. That is like saying that it is OK for a company to expose someone to let's say coal dust, which leads to black lung, without taking appropriate steps to protect their employee (e.g. giving them a respirator). There are many people who are forced to work in industries where jobs are available and it is not right to say that they "chose" to be exposed to such and such danger. That is what OSHA, MSHA, etc.... are there for and they should have stopped the smoking in restaurants, bars, etc... a long time ago.

jstreet · 01-06-2006, 12:59 PM

I used to be a waiter. There are benefits and risks to every job. It's not like I didn't see it coming that there would be smoke, or that my employer tried to lie and say that smoke couldn't kill.

There are lots of things about lots of jobs that can put someone at risk. If people are so bent out of shape about a relatively small number of actual restaurant/bar workers that actually want to ban smoking -- rather than themselves as patrons, I suspect -- than I think the right thing to do is make incentives for restaurants to go smoke-free, or like I said, require that workers be allowed a smoke-free area in which to work if they request it.

I am not at all convinced that this smoking ban is primarily for the workers, and I just don't like it being sold as such.

nickel · 01-06-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Williams

I used to be a waiter. There are benefits and risks to every job. It's not like I didn't see it coming that there would be smoke, or that my employer tried to lie and say that smoke couldn't kill.

There are lots of things about lots of jobs that can put someone at risk. If people are so bent out of shape about a relatively small number of actual restaurant/bar workers that actually want to ban smoking -- rather than themselves as patrons, I suspect -- than I think the right thing to do is make incentives for restaurants to go smoke-free, or like I said, require that workers be allowed a smoke-free area in which to work if they request it.

I am not at all convinced that this smoking ban is primarily for the workers, and I just don't like it being sold as such.

it's for workers and patrons.

and those smoking rooms with the air purifying machines... well, they don't work. you still smell it.

smokers in NY bucked this when it was first enacted. the complaints have virtually went up in smoke now.

jstreet · 01-06-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickel

it's for workers and patrons.

and those smoking rooms with the air purifying machines... well, they don't work. you still smell it.

smokers in NY bucked this when it was first enacted. the complaints have virtually went up in smoke now.

Are there other things the good citizens of the world will protect the lowly waitstaff from?

I hated being a waiter in DC during any kind of international event because it's rare to tip in other countries. That annoyed me more than smokers and didn't help my health matters any. Can we ban international folks from restaurants too?

I won't buy that this is for the workers until I see a group spearheaded by the workers behind the anti-smoking campaign or until I see a survey showing how the workers feel. Until then, I'm pretty sure it is the (majority of) people who don't like smoking banning things under the pretense of the worker's health.

nickel · 01-06-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Williams

Are there other things the good citizens of the world will protect the lowly waitstaff from?

I hated being a waiter in DC during any kind of international event because it's rare to tip in other countries. That annoyed me more than smokers and didn't help my health matters any. Can we ban international folks from restaurants too?

I won't buy that this is for the workers until I see a group spearheaded by the workers behind the anti-smoking campaign or until I see a survey showing how the workers feel. Until then, I'm pretty sure it is the (majority of) people who don't like smoking banning things under the pretense of the worker's health.

yes OSHA standards save them from a lot more unsafe conditions. we can add not having to breathe in second hand smoke to that list.

nope sorry, you cannot compare the lack of tips to second hand smoke.

all that you are saying is reminicent of the rantings of smokers in NY. most of the smokers that i know have conceded that this banning wasn't all that bad of an idea.

by the way, who do you think this ban is benefitting if not the staff and patrons? it must be of benefit to someone if it's being enacted, correct?

jstreet · 01-06-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickel

yes OSHA standards save them from a lot more unsafe conditions. we can add not having to breathe in second hand smoke to that list.

nope sorry, you cannot compare the lack of tips to second hand smoke.

all that you are saying is reminicent of the rantings of smokers in NY. most of the smokers that i know have conceded that this banning wasn't all that bad of an idea.

by the way, who do you think this ban is benefitting if not the staff and patrons? it must be of benefit to someone if it's being enacted, correct?

I didn't say banning "wasn't all that bad of an idea". I just said that it is most certainly not for the health of the workers. It is for people that do not enjoy being in establishments with smokers.

As I've said several times -- ok then -- but please don't say it's for the workers, because it very clearly isn't. There are easy ways to protect workers and allow smokers at the same time.

nickel · 01-06-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Williams

I didn't say banning "wasn't all that bad of an idea". I just said that it is most certainly not for the health of the workers. It is for people that do not enjoy being in establishments with smokers.

As I've said several times -- ok then -- but please don't say it's for the workers, because it very clearly isn't. There are easy ways to protect workers and allow smokers at the same time.

that's your opinion. i have a sister who is a bartender. she was overjoyed when this ban went into effect. she was sick of constantly breathing in smoke and smelling like an ashtray when she got home. it is clear to see that this law benefitted her. why didn't she take another job if the smoke bothered her so much? because of the easy money she makes tending bar, and the convenient hours.
and no... there is no easy way to protect her from the smoke if it is done inside. "smoking rooms" don't cut it.
as per her, patrons go outside to smoke now and the complaints have all but subsided.

jstreet · 01-06-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickel

that's your opinion. i have a sister who is a bartender. she was overjoyed when this ban went into effect. she was sick of constantly breathing in smoke and smelling like an ashtray when she got home. it is clear to see that this law benefitted her. why didn't she take another job if the smoke bothered her so much? because of the easy money she makes tending bar, and the convenient hours.
and no... there is no easy way to protect her from the smoke if it is done inside. "smoking rooms" don't cut it.
as per her, patrons go outside to smoke now and the complaints have all but subsided.

This is pointless discussion 9186948296.

There is a way to protect her from smoke inside, but no, it isn't easy -- but yes, it is possible. The law very easily could have been aimed at protecting workers, rather than banning all smoke everywhere, but it wasn't. There is a quite clear difference, and if you choose to ignore it, so be it.

Grimm · 01-06-2006, 01:42 PM

While second hand smoke is disgusting, it's not as dangerous as people think. The single report that found that second hand smoke is dangerous was found to have used cherry picked data, thus making it invalid. All other claims of the danger of second hand smoke are based on this one, inaccurate, report.
http://www.junkscience.com/feb01/perske.htm
I favor restricting smoking because people forgot how to be courtious. People uded to look around and see if their smoke was going to bother anyone before lighting up. And if they missed somone and they were bothered, they put it out. Today people act as if it is a Constitutional right to bother other people with their smoke. That's just wrong.
Legislation had to take the place of common courtesy. It would be better if courtesy worked, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

01-05-2006, 11:57 AM	#2
johnnymk Chief of Naval Operations Join Date: May 2000 Location: LEVITTOWN< PA> USA Posts: 13,621	New Jersey is considering it. I can't wait till Pennsylvania brings a smoking ban bill up for vote. __________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” (Winston Churchill)

01-05-2006, 12:00 PM	#3
mcs328 Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 6,578	Actually I'm divided on this. I don't like banning smoking at all even though I don't smoke at all. __________________

01-05-2006, 01:57 PM	#8
nickel Vice Chairwoman, Joint Chieftess of Staff Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jeterville, NYY Posts: 17,786	we have this smoking ban in NY. i absolutely love it. i attribute many a past hangover to being in a crowded bar breathing in everyone else's cigarette smoke. __________________ click me

01-06-2006, 02:18 AM	#15
Freelance Superhero Optimus Prime Join Date: May 2002 Location: in bed Posts: 4,116	oh, lord... my buddy just left last night to run a campaign in maryland, and he's a chain smoker... poor guy. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! __________________ "I can't believe you can eat that; it looks like abortion." - Augusta, of the Tard-Blog

01-06-2006, 12:46 PM	#21
riskykougra Lieutenant Commander Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Too close to the North Pole. Posts: 562	Here in Ontario...in Canada...just to clarify...we have had a ban on smoking for a year and a half now. You cannot smoke in any bar or restaurant or workplace. Any establishment that errects a smoking area can only have 3 walls around it, it cannot be completely enclosed. At first there was alot of grumbling about lost revenue from bars and restaurants but that hasnt happened. People still go out they just smoke outside and restaurants are alot more enjoyable...especially if you have children...because you can actually taste your food and not the smoke from the people all around you. I think it was the best thing to happen...and it was the people of Ontario who decided in an election if it would pass or not and Im glad it did. I used to work in a restaurant and had to jump in the shower as soon as I got home cause i couldnt stand the smell of smoke on me anymore. __________________ I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.

01-05-2006, 12:13 PM	#4
Grimm 100% Pure Evil Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,861	It's not a full ban, it's a restriction. Bars that want to continue to hav smoking will continue to be able to, they just need to be a bit creative. Sell single cigarettes for $2.50 with a free beer. And have beer $3.00. Bam! 50% of your sales are now tobacco. You are exempt.

01-05-2006, 12:20 PM	#5
guiseppewv Admiral Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: East coast Posts: 7,116	I do not think you can buy a beer in DC for $2.50. You definitely aren't going to be able to get a beer and a cig for $2.50.

01-05-2006, 02:00 PM	#9
Merlin Admiral Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Square On My Arse Posts: 7,410	Yeah cuz all the drinking you were doing couldn't possibly be the cause.

01-06-2006, 07:26 AM	#17
Jeffbx Fleet Admiral Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 9,390	I really wish they would do this in Michigan - especially in restaurants. Nothing worse than trying to eat while breathing stale smoke.

01-06-2006, 12:25 PM	#20
jstreet Rear Admiral Lower Half Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 2,782	I used to be a smoker, so perhaps that's the reason I'll swing into this mode, but I don't like the ban. If the aim was truly to provide workers a place where they didn't have to breathe smoke, than that's what it should've said. There should be exemptions for restaurants/bars that have separate areas for smokers, that use air-handling equipment (that actually works), etc. I see it all as a series of choices: someone chooses to open a restaurant or bar and how to manage smoking -- waiters and waitresses choose to apply for a job at a certain place -- patrons choose to go to a certain place. I don't particularly think there should be any law at all, but if there is going to be one, and it's going to be sold to the public under the guise of protecting workers, than make it a law that requires management to give a worker a job in a smoke-free area if they ask for it, without fear of reprisal. If management's happy with smoke, and the workers are happy with smoke, and patrons evidently don't care enough to stop coming, then where is the problem?

01-06-2006, 12:59 PM	#23
jstreet Rear Admiral Lower Half Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 2,782	I used to be a waiter. There are benefits and risks to every job. It's not like I didn't see it coming that there would be smoke, or that my employer tried to lie and say that smoke couldn't kill. There are lots of things about lots of jobs that can put someone at risk. If people are so bent out of shape about a relatively small number of actual restaurant/bar workers that actually want to ban smoking -- rather than themselves as patrons, I suspect -- than I think the right thing to do is make incentives for restaurants to go smoke-free, or like I said, require that workers be allowed a smoke-free area in which to work if they request it. I am not at all convinced that this smoking ban is primarily for the workers, and I just don't like it being sold as such.

01-06-2006, 01:42 PM	#30
Grimm 100% Pure Evil Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,861	While second hand smoke is disgusting, it's not as dangerous as people think. The single report that found that second hand smoke is dangerous was found to have used cherry picked data, thus making it invalid. All other claims of the danger of second hand smoke are based on this one, inaccurate, report. http://www.junkscience.com/feb01/perske.htm I favor restricting smoking because people forgot how to be courtious. People uded to look around and see if their smoke was going to bother anyone before lighting up. And if they missed somone and they were bothered, they put it out. Today people act as if it is a Constitutional right to bother other people with their smoke. That's just wrong. Legislation had to take the place of common courtesy. It would be better if courtesy worked, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

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