WhiskeyPapa

My wife got this email today from a relatively superficial friend (not a "best friend" or even a close friend) that said, in part, "I am numb, stunned and speechless, having a hard time functioning and can't get my mind on anything else but profound sadness..."

This was over Farrah Faucett and Michael Jackson.

Sure, I'm sad that they died, but no more than when I read in the newspaper of some random person dying in a car accident.

Am I heartless, or am I closer to the way most people feel? Have you ever felt "numb, stunned and speechless" over a celebrity's death?

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attgig

nope. no celeb has ever done that to me.

I'm sure that people felt like that over JFK's assasination...
I know a bunch of my friends felt like that with Kurt Cobain.

but not me...

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smeakim

Its probably a sad statement of my life but there are only 5 or 6people I would grieve for in my life (wife, child, mom, dad, sister, and nephew (not really sure on the nephew one as we are not that close). Would I miss other people not mentioned, yes, but I doubt grieve.

johnnymk

No, not really. I am sometimes shocked at a sudden death of a celebrity. But grieve, like if my cat died...NAH.

Jeffbx

No way. I was sad at the passing of some celebs like John Candy, but that's only because I wanted to see more of their work.

Yossarian

spot on jeff

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ray

no

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guiseppewv

I get a little, tiny bit sad (at least a twinge) at pretty much anyone who dies. I do not grieve for celebrities, however, I do get sad when a really, really important one dies. The last one was probably Mother Theresa. Jackson doesn't even get a blip on the meter. FF got a blip only because she went through an ordeal with her cancer.

Markel

guiseppewv pretty much sums up my feelings on this.

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johnnymk

French fries get cancer?

DarkFury

It just depends on how much the "celebrity" affected your life...

For some, we associate certain music with certain moments of our lives... in this case, Micheal Jackson kinda holds a special location in some of us just because some of his music held a special place.

Now granted, I can't say that I feel that way about ALL celebrities... but a certain few do have that affect. The celebrities that come to mind that had more of an effect on me than most included (but not limited to): Bernie Mack, Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, Marvin Gaye, Robin Harris, Tupac Shakur, and Biggie.

I dunno... I guess it's all about who you are really into and those who are kinda like "other celebrities out there". Now that being said, it's not like I'll be holding a prayer session over a shrine or something... but honestly, I do sorta feel the loss given the impact that Mike had during my teen years.

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mojo

so - just black people then.



FF got ripped off.

i mean, sure MJ's thing was a big deal. but FF was THE THING for years as far as beautiful women goes. and to stop talking about her at all because of MJ is ridiculous.

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johnnymk

I noticed the same thing.

There was a black guy at work who only listened to black music and defended it saying "That's our heritage", whatever that meant.

DarkFury

Honestly, for now... yes. My idols just happen to be folks who look just a lil bit more like me than you, mostly because that is who I mainly followed growing up. Are you gonna fault me for that too? I guess this is your feeble attempt to once again pull a race card on my thoughts.

I wasn't touched in the same way by alot of the other Entertainers I watched growing up. And I don't expect your list of "respected" entertainers who you'd grieve over to be like mine, if you would grieve at all.

DarkFury

Well, I guess she should have lived a bit longer then huh... (being sarcastic here of course...).

BTW... MJ is a worldwide icon. Anyone who would have passed at the same time as him would have suffered the same fate of lessened acknowledgment. Pretty much, if MJ and Pope John Paul had died on the same day, then you might have seen a split in the coverage.. but as such, FF is not even remotely in the worldwide recognition of MJ, thus she got overlooked.

But hey, we don't choose when our time comes... unfortunately her's did get eclipsed on that day although I'm sure many still recognized her passing as well.

mojo

once again? i wonder when the first time was.

i noticed because as a musician, i followed a lot of people from different backgrounds. i listened to black people, white, mexican, etc. i didn't just listen to people who were like me.

i try to keep an open mind. there was a time at which i listened to just one thing and that one thing was just mainly white performers. i stopped when i was a teen.

i can understand with certain backgrounds that a person might appreciate more of one thing than the other. it's probably human nature. but to be so disproportionate - i don't think i'm the one pulling any race card to be honest.

DarkFury

The "once again" is more of a general comment to the forum... in respect of anything I say ultimately gets boiled down to "a Black thing" and whatnot. Honestly, it is what I am, so why even point that out?

BTW.. I'm NOT a musican, and I do only mostly listen to a few types of music, mostly R&B and Hip Hop... so my opinion is slanted in that general direction in regards to music. I like Black comedy... so that falls in line with the same slant. More or less, I already realize that my tastes are somewhat different than probably the average G|A member.. .and I make no bones about that, yet that bone gets picked on to seemingly discount what I have to say which is why it strikes a nerve with me as of late.

My thing is... since my PREFERENCE is obvious, why not just get past that and only address the core issue. In your case, you (and JMK) made the point which generated my previous response. I don't have any "Caucaisian Idols" who would affect me in the same way... is there something wrong with saying that or something? For example, When Pope John Paul II died, I didn't fall over crying... I'm not Catholic, but I did sympathize with his passing. It just didn't affect me the same way that it may have affected others. That didn't make him any less of a person than he was.

If Farrah Fawcett had died on the same day as the Pope, would you have made the same statement that you made above... if she was ignored in favor of coverage for him? Think about that...

LPMiller

i would have, but that's because FF helped me reach puberty. I had the poster.

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DarkFury

I can understand that reasoning... plus she probably helped you see the Lord a few more times than the Pope did as well huh?


Oh Lawd...

Oh Lawd...

OH LAWD!!!!!!

Showtime

I don't feel as bad for the dead as I do for the living (family/friends). Generally I don't feel any differently for stars than if anyone else, I was somewhat familiar with, died.

I can emphasize with someone feeling really sad cuz his childhood fantasy or musical idol passed. BUT lots of people (imo) put on a show so that they can create/feel a connection with the deceased star.

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mojo

i'm learning as time goes by that the farrah fawcett thing was expected. MJ's was more of a surprise. so...more coverage.

as to the rest of the "what you are" statement, you obviously have some stuff to sort out. so i'll let you do that. but honestly you have preferences that if they were expressed in the other direction might be taken "the wrong way."

not to mention that i remember you making light of "what white people like." i mean, yeah - they were jokes. but if the jokes went the other way (regarding stereotypes) would it cease to be funny...?



talk about a classic. and she looked good up to the end

LPMiller

she really did, though she was starting to go for too much plastic surgery. All the former Angels are way too botoxed. But back in the day....sigh.

cheapie

guys, get off DF's back. they were all fairly influential in our society and probably mean more to the black population than to the rest of us.

MJ's passing somehow affected me more than i expected because his life is such a sad story. in spite of his huge success, he was never happy with himself and ultimately ended up looking like something out of a cartoon. kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. what an incredible waste of what should have otherwise been a great life.

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DarkFury

I have nothing to sort out... as I'm perfectly fine with the way I am. (I still don't understand what your issue was with it in the first place...) But anyways... You can feel free to have your preferences, and I won't judge you on them as they are just how you feel.

As far as "what white people like" jokes... well you'll have to find that thread and enligten me to what was said. Stereotypes abound, and jokes about them abound as well. I harbor no ill will if you don't feel the same way I do... and hopefully you don't harbor any towards me with my opinion.

BTW... stereotypes can be funny as jokes.. as many a comedian makes their living off of them. However some folks do go "too far" and make the stereotypes a serious issue to intentionally disparage someone and that's not right. It just depends on how it's being used I suppose...

BTW, how did this conversation digress into talkin' about stereotypes? I thought we were talking about why we feel a certain affinity to some celebrities and not others? I guess this is kinda bleeding over into a new topic... wouldn't you say?

DarkFury

Seriously, you are right on the money with this one...

I don't think MJ was EVER happy with his life... and he had everything he could possibly want right in front of him. At one point, money was NO OBJECT for him, yet he never found happiness.

In a way, that's the saddest thing of all. You could tell by his constant struggle to change himself physically that he was a very "unhappy" person. Personally, I saw nothing wrong with the way he looked at age 21 (around the "Off the Wall" album timeframe...) Maybe if he'd just stopped with reshaping his nose once (since he never liked his nose and it reminded him of his father Joe Jackson who he obviously hated...) and left the rest of his skin alone (even if he would have had a few spots of vitaligo, those could've possibly been covered and blended with his natural color) then maybe he could have focused on develping a healthy relationship with his family and with women. But as such it just kinda seems that he struggled to hold on to every shred of his "childhood dream" since his childhood was stolen from him as a celebrity.

Now granted, I'm making some assumptions above... but dayuum... it's just pretty dayuum sad that his life went to shambles the way it did over the past 10 years, yet we will remember him for the "good ole days" when he held that special place in our hearts through his music rather than the ugly place he created with his antics.

WhiskeyPapa

Reminds me of Mother Teresa/Princess Diana. On the day MT died my wife was talking to her sister (who is kind of a ditz.) My wife asked "Did you hear about Mother Teresa?"

"Oh yes it's so sad!" Replied her sister, "She's taking some of the spotlight off Princess Di!"

guiseppewv

Too funny. The things that come out of some people's mouths are hilarious.

mojo

link (stuff white people like)

and i don't really have a problem with people having this kind of opinion about stuff, but i don't think that everyone can get away with it. i can't tell stereotyped jokes without it getting ugly (no matter how i tell them). at least not of certain groups.
i know they were influential. i recognize outside of my group

but i'll leave it alone now.

DarkFury

There is a difference between recognition and grief...

Grief is much deeper than recognition... Grief is more "personal". And people deal with the losses in different ways. Some folks don't grieve at all... as it's not a big deal to them. Does that make them "wrong"? I'd say no... because that's just how they feel.

We just need to accept that everyone is different... and move forward from there. Is that too much to ask? This questioning of one's personal feelings kinda touches the line... My opinion is, let the folks state their opinion and just leave it at that. If you don't agree with it... that's fine, but don't go trying to find fault with it just because it's not the way that you feel (unless that opinion directly affects your ability to form your own opinion.. then there would be a problem if that were the case.)

So can we move on now... and just celebrate the life of MJ (if you want to) or don't (if that is your preference) for whatever your reasons are for doing so?


EDIT: I see that you edited to say that you are leaving this alone now. I totally agree with this and I'm doing the same. Thanks a bunch for the dialogue.

VTGreg

Each group is going to have different celebrities that mean more to them. Those groups could be divided along national, regional, ethnic or religious lines to name a few. The Pope passing away was far more difficult on my Mom and Grandmother because they are devout catholics just like the passing of David Hasselhoff will be far more difficult on the Germans.

As far as the impact of MJ's death is concerned, he was an icon. Farrah Faucett was a big celebrity but was not a global icon like MJ. As a result his death, especially considering the suddenness and bizarre circumstances, will garner much more attention.

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