jry1209

So my wife is methodist and I'm a non practicing jew. She wants to start going to church regularly. We agreed when we were married that our kids would be raised methodist. Since I'm not the religous type, I figured I was OK with this...religion certainly can only be a good thing in the right dose I figured.

The problem is that now our son is 2 years old, she wants to start going regularly. I've been lucky enough to dodge this bullet for a few years but the time has come where she wants to make it part of our active life.

I absolutely cannot stand going. It is not my religion, and even though I do not and haven't practiced my own religion, I feel completely out of place when I'm at any church related gatherings. I don't mind my son being exposed to it, but it's really hard for me to go at all.

I know marriage is about making compromises, but is it wrong for me to draw the line and say that I don't want to go? I could deal with the occasional holiday visits, but regularly is going to be really tough for me. I don't know what the right thing to do is here. Not to mention the fact that my son is a living terror when we go. He certainly hasn't reached the age where he wants go either.

GracieBayb

wow, that's tough...

i think that it was good that you guys decided early on how you wanted to raise your children, but if she never made your attendance an issue, then i think it is pretty unfair for her to expect you to just jump right into that sort of ritual. i was also raised methodist and had a serious relationship with a guy who was agnostic - i think it is pretty difficult to come to a compromise with respect to where a line should be drawn... but i do believe that in a healthy relationship, nobody should ever feel forced into a situation and that sort of sounds like where you're at right now...

try to talk it out - you both sound like a caring and understanding couple, i'm sure that you guys can come to a decision that everyone can live with.

Jenny

Let her go and take your son. She's an adult and that's her decision if she wants to go. I'm sure he can go into the nursery, if she hasn't considered that already she should, and then she can go into church by herself. Have her find a group that she can join from the church as well, so she'll meet other people and can find people to sit with, etc if she wants to.

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gwilks98

I'm going to sit on the other side of the fence on this one. Don't assume it's about your beliefs. Maybe she wants you to go to set a good example for the boy. Every year he grows, he's going to wonder why he has to sit through church and dad doesn't and he'll miss the point of going in the first place.

If her problem is just that, then I would propose that she should allow you to express that in ways other than going to her church though. Would it be an acceptable compromise if you do some community service/volunteer work during church hours?

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whitak24

i would disagree. if the child asks why daddy doesn't go to church, they should just explain that daddy belongs to a different church, and that's why he doesn't go to the methodist church.

JackHammer

Just talk to her and let her know how you feel. I'm sure the both of you will come to a compromise. I know easier said than done.

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ialsohaveadream

I'm in a very similar situation with my fiance. We've already agreed on how we're going to raise the kids (and it's a lot like your plan). We also plan to let the child choose who he'd like to spend his Sunday mornings with...because part of our deal was that we would be free to choose our own churches, and not feel obligated to attend the same one.

cheapie

whit....kids aren't stupid. telling the kid that it's important to go to church but that daddy doesn't believe what he's learning is silly. that's like telling my son to be a patriots fan and cheering for the colts. he's gonna say, wtf?

and ihad...do you really think letting the kid decide is even close to a real solution? hey kid, do you want to go to church or sit at home and play xbox. uh.....


that's what makes hooking up with someone that doesn't share your religious view unadvisable. you think, sure, take the kid and yourself to church. it's only an hour or two a week. she's thinking, my mate does not share my worldview and our outlook on life is completely different. not a good idea.

GracieBayb

i just disagree with you cheapie...

i know that you have taken this stance several times throughout many different forums - and while i understand that it is difficult to teach a child the importance of a belief that your spouse may not share - it is not impossible... do all felons raise children who are felons? drug addicts? cheaters? parents influence their children in many ways - but only up to a certain point at which, kids begin to make their own choices

i think it really depends on how much work and effort you are willing to put in... it can work because when you get down to it, everyone has a different worldview and beliefs

cheapie

i'm uncomfortable w/your example but we'll go with it...in the case of one parent being a criminal and the child ending up ok, the other parent generally discourages the child from emulating the "bad" parent. additionally, the "bad" parent also discourages the child to refrain from following his/her example.

that is not the case here. the non-religious parent is essentially saying "go ahead and go to church. but i don't agree with what you are learning or the life that your mother embraces." what kind of value is the child going to place in the church or teachings if one parent places no value in it?

and i knew a lot of friends that had dads that didn't go to church with their mom. the mom almost always resented it and the marriages didn't do so well long-term.

what non-christians/muslims/etc. don't generally realize is that religion usually is more than just a 2-hour event on sunday. if you don't believe what the bible says that's fine. but someone that is a christian believes the following: the only way to go to heaven is by accepting Christ's sacrifice, Christians and non-Christians have a seperate future, and that your life is to be lived according to God's will as described in the bible.

all of the aforementioned is likely contrary to what a non-Christian believes. you can take about compromise, extra effort, etc. all you want. but eventually you have to realize that either you do not truly believe what the Bible says OR you and your spouse have decidedly different goals, inspiration, and futures.

mcs328

oh this is a tough one. How would you feel if your son went to a synagoge(sp?) to see what your faith is like and then let him choose? I would be afraid that you and your wife argue on what belief is truer and the affect that might have on your son. I don't think you should go every Sunday...that's asking a lot of you but that's my two cents. Talk to your wife and see where you can compromise.

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zenbooty

And I will play devil's advocate, as usual. Sure, its not about YOUR beliefs. Its about hers. That's why she wants her son going to church.

What could be a worse example to set than just going through the motions in something you really don't believe in? Kids are intelligent, and your son will pick up on that.

Which is what, exactly? Let him wonder why Dad doesn't go to church. It just might save him from a life of mindless indoctrination.

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zenbooty

I agree the criminal analogy is a bad one. There is something wrong with being a criminal, and children should be discouraged from it. There is nothing wrong with not being of a particular religion, and children should know that, too.

Hopefully just enough value to be useful to him in life without losing perspective on faith's proper place in one's life as well as in society. Its wrong to indoctrinate an innocent child into a religious belief before tthey are old enough and educated enough to make those kinds of decisions for themselves. I think Sunday school and other religious indoctrination aimed at the young are unethical enterprises.

So it seems the problem is with the mother there. Why should the guy be blamed for her resentment? Again, in such a case it looks like the churchgoer has a lack of proper perspective.

No we realize this only too well. Its a shame that people would believe such harsh things and have it end up having harsh consequences on their lives and the lives of those they care about who may not have such a fervorous and unacommodatiing belief system.

ialsohaveadream

Silly cheapie, assuming that the Xbox is the alternative. (Besides, I'm a PS2 man)

Actually, our situation is that I view religion as a private thing, and I read about it alone and on my own terms (not always Sunday mornings). She believes that you gain a deeper faith by socializing with others who believe as you do, and she likes the structure of devoting a set day and time to her beliefs.

InfiniteNothing

She thinks you're setting a bad example by not going, you ought to explain that it's not a bad example, it's an alternative example. She wants your son to be raised Christian and since it seems like you have no objection to this you should explain to your son that while you don't belive what she does he has to go to church because it's important to her. You should also explain that when he comes of age it'll be his choice just like it's your choice now.


You need to negotiate this deal with your SO now. I think it's most equitable if (s)he spends one weekend doing your thing and one weekend doing hers and that he gets to chose when he comes of age.

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Merlin

I don't have a lot to add that has not already been said but there is one thing I would keep in mind. In the future junior will notice the difference and start asking about it. When that happens it may result in what feels like a competition to win over the child. Obviously from the way you describe things I doubt you'll feel that way but I'm sure the mother will. Tension and resentment can result if you're not careful.

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oblongmelon

I don't know why you no longer are a practicing Jew, but how about having the child learn about BOTH religions??? (which would mean that you'd also have to head back to the synagogue)...Isn't it only right for a child to know about the faith of both parents?...and I must say, I agree with cheapie on this one..if parents started letting children decide the how's and wheres and when's of their religious upbringing, it would have been the end of Numerous religions years ago. Parents have to make the choice for their children when they are infants and incorporate their belief into the lives of the children..if parents can't -that's what godparents are for.

faither

My wife and I attend church with our daughters each week and on ocassion we still have a hard time getting them to go. I can only imagine how difficult it would be if one parent doesn't, the other does and the one that does also wants the child to go. There's an incredibly mixed message that's being given to the child and creates a situation that -- at best -- will confuse the child.

With our kids anyway, even though we go every week and it's been part of their lives since they were babies, they regularly ask why we go. We explain as best we can but many of the reasons people follow religion are difficult for children to grasp (and we're singing from the same songbook). Personally, I would suggest you just go along with it. If your wife isn't pushing you to get involved with the whole "community" aspect of her church, I don't see the big deal. You can file the hour each week under miscellaneous and who knows, if nothing else you can use that hour to just let go of everything and relax (your mind...the body relaxes much better on the couch).

Good luck.

jry1209

I have never practiced the religion. Was born into it, and lived in a single parent home where there wasn't a whole lot of time for it. Therefore it's near impossible for me to be an educator in that respect. Also being that I was raised without it, I don't feel the need for it. I guess I don't know what I'm missing out on.

WhiskeyPapa

You said marriage is about making compromises. It's not. It's about sacrifice. "Compromise" implies you are willing to give 50%. You need to be willing to give 100%, and in this case, it means attending her church for a couple hours a week. It's really not that bad, you might even make a few friends.

Also, the Methodist church is pretty easy-going. You won't have to learn a bunch of rituals or secret handshakes or anything.

If this is important to your wife, and you fight it, you will have serious problems in almost every aspect of your marriage. You need to pick your battles wisely, and honestly, a couple hours on Sunday is not the battlefield I'd chose to die on.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in almost 20 years of marriage I've learned that Happy Wife = Happy Life.

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Cantacuzene

Any religion of whose philosophy and message is so weak that it can't stand on its own in any way other than mindless indoctrination should have ended years ago.

Edit: in my personal case, my parents were non-practicing Catholics (although my dad is a practicing again since they divorced) and they sent me to CCD/Sunday School thing beginning when I was 9 or so. I didn't like the way they treated me in there or the way they presented religion. So when I was 12 I told my parents I wasn't going there any longer. I said that if they wanted me to go to Mass still I would, but I would no longer accept going to Sunday school.

My main problem was they tried to dumb christianity down far too much. Maybe some of the other kids in the class were stupid and needed that, but I did not. I got more out of talking to my uncle who is a priest and one of my great aunts who is a nun than I ever did from 3 years of Sunday school.

whitak24

i think that this is the reason why i really don't like the idea of this father going to church even though it is something he doesn't believe in. it sends the message to the child that religion is a series of motions you go through to make certain people happy (god, your wife, your mom, etc), rather than a system of belief in a higher power.

in addition, i think that cheapie's point about religion being a 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week enterprise is important. if dad is going to church for 2 hours each week, but doesn't believe or practice the religion for the rest of the week, it again sends a negative message to the child: that religion can be confined to 2 hours a week, and the rest of the time it doesn't matter.

there are religious differences in this family, and i think it's better to be upfront about it with the child, rather than trying to paper over it and letting the kid find out from the tension that is caused by the conflicts.

on another note, it might be worthwhile for the father to further explore his religious beliefs, and let the child explore these beliefs as well, so that the kid can start learning that dad doesn't go to church because he's lazy, but because his belief system is different.

cheapie

i think the point obby and i were trying to make is that kids will usually choose the path of least resistance. if it were up to the kid, he would likely choose not to go to school either.

cheapie

nicely stated. he def. should not just attend and go through the motions.

that's why it's not advisable for christians to marry non-christians. because one important part of the faith is that choosing to follow Christ is the correct way to live and the alternative is therefore not correct. there's no way around this if you choose to really follow the teachings you claim to embrace.

Cantacuzene

I have no problem with wanting to raise a child according to a certain religion, thats fine. The real issue is when the kid gets old enough to be aware of his choices and says he no longer wishes to go. Do you let him/her not go or do you force him to go?

attgig

you all saying that the kid should decide....... the kid's 2 years old! as much as you'd like to treat the kid as an intelligent child....the kid's 2 years old!

if you don't know all the implications of that, find a two year old from your friends/family, and think about how that kid acts, thinks, etc.


again, I'll say....THE KID'S 2 YEARS OLD.


thank you.

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cheapie

to be honest canta, i don't know. i have had a bunch of theories about parenting that have been thrown out the window with our second child. jry1209's kid is around the age that mine is so i know what i would do today.

when is the child old enough to decide not to go? i would estimate at 12-13 year's old but we'll see if i still feel the same when austin gets there.

Cantacuzene

I'd say he is old enough to decide when he gives you a rational reason for not wanting to go, other than usual kid stuff like, "its boring" or "because!" But thats just my opinion.

cheapie

sounds good in theory. i'll reserve judgement until my kid reaches that age.

attgig

btw, to try to help you out jry...it seems the whole "We agreed when we were married that our kids would be raised methodist." part of the agreement wasn't clearly defined. I think she assumed too much when you guys agreed on that, and you didn't understand all the implications of raising a child as methodist.

i think you guys need to clarify what she thought this agreement meant, and you clarify what you meant when you agreed to this, and work from there. make sure you guys get yourselves onto common ground in terms of her expectations of you and what you're willing to give her.