Couple Forbidden from Smoking in their Condo

[johnnymk]

Interesting dilemma

http://www.wsbtv.com/health/10343373...311172006&ts=H

GOLDEN, Colo. -- A Colorado judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.


Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said.

The Heritage Hills No. 1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.

"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.

For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.

"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.

The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.

"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.

The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."

Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.

[clutchy]

How much power do HOA's actually have?

what can they do fine you? ok, now they've fined me and i refuse to pay now what?

[BigJon]

We live in a condo and when the neighbors light up...I can smell it seeping in from the basement. I finally ended up spraying expanding foam where the floorboards of the first floor meet the basement concrete wall. Works a little...but didn't completely stop it.

[Jeffbx]

How much power do HOA's actually have?

what can they do fine you? ok, now they've fined me and i refuse to pay now what?

They sue you - most HOA's have a lawyer on retainer for such things.

[DarkFury]

I used to live in an apartment where the lady below me was a voracious smoker (I swear, she must've smoked 10 packs a day...)

My closets constantly smelled of smoke... my clothes smelled as if I hung out in the clubs all the time. My mom even asked me one time if I had taken up smoking one year when I had went back home for my Christmas vacation from the dense smell coming from me and my clothes.

Honestly, doing it in your own home is one thing... but dayuum, when you smoke SO much that it literally takes over someone else's private space... well that is just too dayuum much. Hell, if you turn your music up so loud that the neighbors complain, they'll sure as hell call the cops on you. This smoke can be just as annoying... in my own opinion.

[mcs328]

I live in a condo and we have an enclosed staircase where people do smoke and it's annoying if you're allergic to cigarette smoke. And they put out their cigs on the carpet which has to get replaced and in rare cases does catch on fire. This increases our condo fee to replace the carpet.

[Thesifer]

I can understand this though. I mean obviously a smoker won't understand it, but I hate when people are smoking and it starts coming in my window. Although it seems weird that it would "seep" in with windows closed and such, paper thin walls and bad insulation I guess.

[InfiniteNothing]

Harm to others can definitely be shown but dayumn where's a smoker got to go these days.

[Thesifer]

Do you agree with the judge's ruling that upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own?
Choice Votes Percentage of 11003 Votes
Yes, their smoke went into the neighbors' homes. 4022 37%
No, they should be able to smoke in their own home. 6981 63%

[DarkFury]

Harm to others can definitely be shown but dayumn where's a smoker got to go these days.

A free standing, away from the general public, enclosed and well ventilated area.


Maybe one day they'll develop a "personal filter" where a person who smokes can blow their smoke directly into the filter and nothing but clean air comes out. Either that, or make them wear a self enclosed, sealed helmet that keeps their smoke around themselves and not invading the free air of non smokers.


Of course these statements are purely "hypothetical"... as I am not personally telling smokers to go sit in a box to smoke.

[zippyjuan]

In California, the Associations have more control over "common areas" than they do over "private areas". You can set rules for private areas on issues that impact your neighbors like loud music or banning things like construction activity (or remodeling) after a certain time of day. If you can contain your activity to within your own unit, you can do it. In my place, smoking is banned in all common areas, but it is not banned in your own unit. A balcony may or may not be considered a "common area" - that depends on exclusive access and what the tenants agee to.

I had a major smoker below me which came up into my unit through the windows or patio. This was a particular problem in the summer since I could not let my patio or windows open to let air in. His smoking has been bad for his health and he is now on oxygen (so a good reason for smokers to quit!) and had to quit smoking so things are not a problem now and I can enjoy things again.

[InfiniteNothing]

That makes sense zippy.

[johnnymk]

His smoking has been bad for his health and he is now on oxygen (so a good reason for smokers to quit!) and had to quit smoking so things are not a problem now and I can enjoy things again.

Gee, I really feel bad for him.......................NOT!!!

[kgsilvas]

How much power do HOA's actually have?
what can they do fine you? ok, now they've fined me and i refuse to pay now what?

If CO is the same as many other states, then that's probably what their HOA will do as well. The bill goes to you and if you don't pay it, it becomes a lien.

Our HOA by-laws authorize unpaid fines as a lien against our homes.

[ShawnLee]

Eh, I'm of two minds on this. But I figure, when it comes down to it, they willingly signed onto the HOA, they agreed that the HOA could regulate aspects of their lives, and the smoking is an actual nuisance.

[Napoleon54]

Harm to others can definitely be shown but dayumn where's a smoker got to go these days.

Anywhere they want, as long as it doesn't bother others.

I don't think anyone is against them actually smoking, they're against the stench invading other peoples' personal spaces. Unfortunately for the smokers though, probably the only practical way of preventing that is for them to not smoke in the condo.

[Houdini]

His smoking has been bad for his health and he is now on oxygen (so a good reason for smokers to quit!) and had to quit smoking so things are not a problem now and I can enjoy things again.

Heh...I've thought about that too, but then again, the O2 would only make his cigarettes burn quicker.

In NOLA especially, cigarettes are everywhere. This must be one of the last remaining bastions of so-called "smokers' rights."

[molecularfire]

I see it as kinda like loud music. It's something you do in your home and rationally you should be able crank up the music as loud as you want and choose to risk whatever damage occurs to your ears but the problem is that it will also present a nuisance to your neighbors and as such is regulated by HOAs.