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Thread: Are Children Overmedicated for Things Like ADHD?

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    Picture of the Day Guru zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Are Children Overmedicated for Things Like ADHD?

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?...0323-307237581
    My guess is that a lot of kids are getting drugs they do not need for what is normal childhood behavior. Some of what is consdidered bad behavior is due to poor parenting- training and disipline. Another case of "I have a problem- give me a pill to solve it." instead of taking your own responsibility for the situation.
    Child's Overdose Death Raises Questions
    By DENISE LAVOIE (Associated Press Writer)
    From Associated Press
    March 23, 2007 2:58 PM EDT
    HULL, Mass. - In the final months of Rebecca Riley's life, a school nurse said the little girl was so weak she was like a "floppy doll."

    The preschool principal had to help Rebecca off the bus because the 4-year-old was shaking so badly.

    And a pharmacist complained that Rebecca's mother kept coming up with excuses for why her daughter needed more and more medication.

    None of their concerns was enough to save Rebecca.

    Rebecca - who had been diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity and bipolar disorder, or what used to be called manic depression - died Dec. 13 of an overdose of prescribed drugs, and her parents have been arrested on murder charges, accused of intentionally overmedicating their daughter to keep her quiet and out of their hair.

    Interviews and a review of court documents by The Associated Press make it clear that many of those who were supposed to protect Rebecca - teachers, social workers, other professionals - suspected something was wrong, but never went quite far enough.

    But the tragic case is more than a story about one child. It raises troubling, larger questions about the state of child psychiatry, namely: Can children as young as Rebecca be accurately diagnosed with mental illnesses? Are rambunctious youngsters being medicated for their parents' convenience? And should children so young be prescribed powerful psychotropic drugs meant for adults?

    Dispensing drugs to children diagnosed with mood or behavior problems is "the easiest thing to do, but it's not always the best thing to do," said Dr. Jon McClellan, medical director of the Child Study and Treatment Center in Lakewood, Wash. "At some level, I would hope that you'd also be teaching kids ways to control their behavior."

    According to the medical examiner, Rebecca died of a combination of Clonidine, a blood pressure medication Rebecca had been prescribed for ADHD; Depakote, an antiseizure and mood-stabilizing drug prescribed for the little girl's bipolar disorder; a cough suppressant; and an antihistamine. The amount of Clonidine alone in Rebecca's system was enough to be fatal, the medical examiner said.

    The two brand-name prescription drugs are approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in adults only, though doctors can legally prescribe them to youngsters and do so frequently.

    Rebecca's parents, Michael and Carolyn Riley, say they were only following doctor's orders. Rebecca, they told police, had been diagnosed when she was just 2 1/2, and Rebecca's psychiatrist prescribed the same potent drugs that had been prescribed for her older brother and sister when she diagnosed them with the same illnesses several years earlier.

    But Rebecca's teachers, the school nurse and her therapist all told police they never saw behavior in Rebecca that fit her diagnoses, such as aggression, sharp mood swings or hyperactivity.

    Prosecutors say the Rileys intentionally tried to quiet their daughter with high doses of Clonidine. Relatives told police the Rileys called Clonidine the "happy medicine" and the "sleep medicine."

    Through their attorneys, Michael Riley, 34, and Carolyn Riley, 32, have accused Rebecca's psychiatrist, Dr. Kayoko Kifuji, of over-prescribing medication.

    Kifuji did not return calls for comment and declined to be interviewed. But Kifuji has vehemently denied any role in Rebecca's death. She has agreed to a suspension of her license while the state's medical board investigates.

    Kifuji told police Rebecca had been her patient since August 2004, when she was 2. She said she based her diagnoses of ADHD and bipolar disorder on the family's mental health history, as described by Carolyn Riley, and Rebecca's behavior, as described by Carolyn and briefly observed by her during office visits.

    Kifuji told police she became alarmed in October 2005 when Carolyn Riley told her she had increased Rebecca's nighttime dose of Clonidine from 2 to 2 1/2 tablets, and warned Carolyn the increased dose could kill Rebecca.

    But Carolyn told investigators Kifuji told her she could give Rebecca and her sister extra Clonidine at night to help them sleep.

    Tufts-New England Medical Center, where Kifuji worked, issued a statement supporting Kifuji, saying her care of Rebecca "was appropriate and within responsible professional standards."

    In the months leading up to Rebecca's death, others noticed there was something wrong.

    Teachers and staff members at the Johnson Early Childhood Center in Weymouth, about 20 miles south of Boston, say they called Rebecca's mother repeatedly to tell her that Rebecca was "out of it," but her mother said the girl was tired because she wasn't sleeping well.

    A neighbor who lived next door to the family in the last month of Rebecca's life said Rebecca and her siblings seemed listless.

    "They looked like little robots. They looked very lethargic," Phyllis Lipton said. "I said, `Wow, they don't look right,' but who knew?"

    Pharmacists at Walgreens in Weymouth called Kifuji twice to complain that Carolyn Riley was asking for more Clonidine, even though her prescription was not due to be refilled yet, according to state police.

    Once, Riley said she had lost a bottle of pills, and another time, she said water had gotten into her prescription bottle and ruined the pills, according to police.

    Kifuji authorized refills, but after the second incident, she began prescribing Clonidine in 10-day refills instead of 30-day supplies, investigators said.

    On Aug. 16, a prescription for 35 Clonidine tablets - a 10-day supply - was filled at Walgreens, even though the Rileys had obtained a 10-day refill only the day before, investigators said.

    Walgreens spokeswoman Tiffani Bruce said: "The scrip was filled as written, as it was prescribed by the doctor, and all the appropriate information on the medications was given to the family."

    After Rebecca's death, police found only seven Clonidine tablets in the family's medicine tray; the pharmacist said there should have been 75. All together, prosecutors say, Carolyn Riley got 200 more pills in one year than she should have.

    The Rileys' lawyers call them unsophisticated people who did not question their children's doctors.

    Both were unemployed; they collected welfare and disabilty benefits and lived in subsidized housing. Michael Riley, who is also awaiting trial on charges of molesting a stepdaughter in 2005, claimed to suffer from bipolar disorder and a rage disorder; his wife told police she suffered from depression and anxiety.

    "They are not the sort of people who go on the Internet and look on WebMD. These are the sort of people who, when they go to a doctor, the doctor is God and they do what the doctor says," said John Darrell, Michael's lawyer.

    Carolyn's lawyer, Michael Bourbeau, said that because the Rileys' three children were all taking Clonidine, Rebecca's prescription may have come up short at times when her siblings were given some of her pills. And some of the pills may have been lost when they were split in half, he said.

    In July, after a therapist filed a complaint with the state Department of Social Services, social workers met with the family's doctors and other medical professionals and were assured that the medications Rebecca was taking were within medical guidelines.

    "There were lots of medical eyes on this case and none of them seemed to say there was an issue of over-medication in this case," said Social Services Commissioner Harry Spence, who has come under fire for the agency's handling of the case.

    Still, there were lingering concerns. When social workers tried to make a home visit in November, Carolyn "resisted and evaded," Spence said. Weeks later, workers resolved to make a surprise check, but Rebecca died the very next day, before they could visit.

    Rebecca was found dead on the floor of her parents' bedroom wearing only a pink pull-up diaper and gold-stud earrings, on top of a pile of clothes, magazines and a stuffed brown bear.

    Rebecca's uncle, James McGonnell, and his girlfriend, Kelly Williams, who lived with the Rileys, told police that the Rileys would put their kids to bed as early as 5 p.m. Rebecca, they said, often slept through the day and got up only to eat.

    When Michael Riley decided the kids were "acting up," he told Carolyn to give them pills, McGonnell and Williams told police.

    According to McGonnell and Williams, Rebecca spent the last days of her life wandering around the house, sick and disoriented. But the Rileys told police they were not alarmed. "It was just a cold," Carolyn repeatedly said during police interviews.

    The medical examiner said Rebecca died a slow and painful death. She said the overdose of Clonidine caused her organs to shut down, filling her lungs with fluid and causing congestive heart failure.

    Williams told police that the night before she died, Rebecca was pale and seemed "out of it." At one point, the little girl knocked weakly on her parents' bedroom door and softly called for her mommy, but Michael Riley opened the door a crack and yelled at her to go back to her room, Williams said.

    Later that night, McGonnell told police, he heard someone struggling to breathe and found Rebecca gurgling as if something was stuck in her throat. McGonnell told police he wiped vomit from his niece's face, then kicked in the door to her parents' room and yelled at the Rileys to take Rebecca to the emergency room.

    Instead, Carolyn Riley said, she gave her daughter a half-tablet of Clonidine.

    Carolyn's mother, Valerie Berio, said that when she visited the kids the night of Dec. 11, Rebecca seemed congested but not seriously ill. In a photograph Berio said she took that night, Rebecca is smiling slightly as her mother holds a new green velvet dress in front of her.

    Berio said that shows that her daughter and son-in-law could not have known how sick Rebecca was.

    Rebecca's death has inflamed a long-running debate in psychiatry. Some psychiatrists believe bipolar disorder, which was traditionally diagnosed in adolescence or early adulthood, has become a trendy diagnosis in young children.

    "As a clinician, I can tell you it's just very difficult to say whether someone is just throwing tantrums or has bipolar disorder," said Dr. Oscar B. Bukstein, a child psychiatrist and associate professor at the University of Pittsburgh.

    A study of mentally ill children discharged from community hospitals, published in January in the Archives of General Psychiatry, found the proportion of children diagnosed with bipolar disorders jumped from 2.9 percent in 1990 to 15.1 percent in 2000.

    A report released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 2002 estimated that about 7 percent of elementary school-age children - or approximately 1.6 million youngsters ages 6 to 11 - have been diagnosed with ADHD.

    The annual number of U.S. children prescribed anti-psychotic drugs jumped fivefold between 1995 and 2002, to an estimated 2.5 million, according to a study published last year by researchers at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital in Nashville, Tenn.

    Some child psychiatrists say bipolar disorder may have been under-diagnosed in children for years, partly because several key symptoms are also symptoms of ADHD, including hyperactivity, distractibility and talkativeness.

    Dr. Janet Wozniak, director of the Pediatric Bipolar Disorder Research Program at Massachusetts General Hospital, said early diagnosis and treatment are critical because the illness can cause social and academic problems, and lead to drug abuse, crime and suicide.

    "What's commonly overlooked when considering diagnosing and treating children at such an early age is the risk of not treating and not intervening," Wozniak said.
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    Rear Admiral Lower Half VTGreg's Avatar
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    I think kids are definitely overdiagnosed and overmedicated. Part of it is that the definition of "normal kid" has changed and I think another part is that kids get less exercise and thus have more energy.

    It isn't just ADHD or even children. Overdiagnosis and overmedication is also a problem with adults.
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    From personal experience as a parent of an ADHD child, I spent years begging the school district to do testing on her-they wouldn't..the reason they gave us for poor grades was simply to say that my daughter was "too social"....what a crock. We finally had her tested by Dr. Vincent Monastra
    http://www.apa.org/videos/4310712.html
    and she he diagnosed her within one visit as having Severe ADHD. It cost us plenty of $$$ but it was well worth it. She got on meds and a special diet, finished high school and nursing school and is doing fabulous now. With no help from teachers who didn't bother to listen to anything we had to say.

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    President, Cowboys Nation MikeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTGreg
    I think kids are definitely overdiagnosed and overmedicated. Part of it is that the definition of "normal kid" has changed and I think another part is that kids get less exercise and thus have more energy.

    It isn't just ADHD or even children. Overdiagnosis and overmedication is also a problem with adults.


    No experience or other basis to go on, just shooting from the hip...but I'd hedge to say yes.

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    Chief of Naval Operations InfiniteNothing's Avatar
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    I don't envy the job of a psychiatrist. On one hand you have parents demanding pills and on the other you have kids whose symptoms are spotty or nontextbook. The brain is so intricate and no two are the same.

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    Rear Admiral Lower Half Cubsfan's Avatar
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    I'd say your answer is yes.

    I think that to me the saddest thing that I've seen with ADHD (I thought it was ADD?) is when parents and children use it as a crutch. I've seen many parents say to their kid "it's ok if you can't do it, you have ADHD", and a lot of kids say things like "I'll try, but I probably can't do it because I have ADHD". I don't dispute that people DO have it, but to use it as a crutch is just so sad. In my experience, usually that child doesn't even seem to try their hardest, because "it's ok to fail", so they basically play to lose.

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    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Absolutely overused IMO.

    And those parents, wtf are they thinking? Are they on drugs (illicit ones) themselves??? Take the other children away ASAP before they're dead too.
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    Rear Admiral Upper Half Sirrich3's Avatar
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    Yes they are....and some may be taking the wrong type too...

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    Chief of Naval Operations johnnymk's Avatar
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    And their parents are overmedicated too.

    I was taking to my chiropractor about a year ago. She guessed that half of the residents of Yardley, an upscale neigborhood near me are on antidepressants and/or anti-anxiety pills.

    These are meds which are highly addictive. For example, only 5% of people taking anti-anxiety meds can EVER get off of them. They are worse than heroin when it comes to addiction.

    And the government is worried about a little marijuana..Hypocrites!!

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    Eternally Ensign Kim's Avatar
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    Meds may not be the perfect solution, but until one is found, I suspect it's better to give your child whatever help you can to ensure they succeed.
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    Chief News Editor & Master of His Domain LPMiller's Avatar
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    it's a crock though. I mean in this case, she was diagnosed as bipolar when she was two.

    Hello? 2 year olds ARE bipolar by nature. They are also neurotic, psychotic, selfish, and mean. They are also sweet and nice and loving. It's just par for the course for a 2 year old, it's why they call it the terrible twos. It's part of learning to be a human being.

    This story angers me to no end. Yes, there are ADD kids, but we are way over medicating kids and over drugging kids for being kids. Calling a 2 year old bipolar or manic depressive is insane. Everyone from the parents to the docs in this case ought to be pimp slapped into next week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsfan
    I'd say your answer is yes.

    I think that to me the saddest thing that I've seen with ADHD (I thought it was ADD?).
    I think they are two slightly different disorders. ADD is attention deficit disorder where they just cant follow or pay attention as a child with the disorder can. ADHD is the same thing but the H is for Hyperactive so now they cant follow along or pay attention but cant sit still and are usually defiant. Thats just the most basic of descriptions Im sure there are ppl here who can explain the differences far better that I can as Im sure there is alot more to it than that.
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    Rear Admiral Lower Half The Happy Squirrel's Avatar
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    ITs not just ADHD, although that is a BIG one
    docotrs to day are way to quick to perscribe meds for anything
    handing out antibiotics for a common cold
    the get in bed with the drug companies and look for any chace to start writing scripts
    show me a kid who is not a bit wild
    come folks they are kids they are supposed to be running and screaming and giggling most of the time the true test is can they actually sti still when asked to or when necessary

    completly agree there are way to mayn diagnosises and scripts being done dont get me wrong there are kids out there who really do need the stuff but in most cases...

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    I was diagnosed with ADD in 5th grade. I took a med until 8th grade when I straight up refused to be a drugged B****. I was mean. I learned how to pay attention and I am fine. I think I was in one of the first waves at least here in Ohio to be over diagnosed. I swear half my class was on Meds in 5th grade.

    Now up to today, it is going to take a heck of a lot of convincing that something is wrong and my child needs meds. I will try all natural routes first. Such as removing artificially dyes from their diets to no sugar, and such. I have seen results from this in other families locally. I also take what the doc says with a grain of salt. I don't blindly listen to my doc or the kids doc. He had written probaley close to 20 perscriptions for the kids combined and I have filled maybe 7 of them. I don't want anribiotics when he dosen't know what it is. I like to let things run their course.

    I think Kids are way over medicated, and I think teachers are also pushing for all the kids to medicated. I have a couple of teachers of my brothers and they are telling my mom my brothers need evaluated and medicated. Fortunatly my mom thinks they are full of crap.

    It is the general view of today that everything needs medication.
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    Picture of the Day Guru zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Maybe this is part of the answer to the question "Why are kids today too fat/ dumb?" Sedate them and stick them in a room. When I was young, all the kids seemed to have their tonsils taken out. Now they all are given pills.
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    delete me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mommypooh
    I will try all natural routes first. Such as removing artificially dyes from their diets....
    We used the Feingold Diet (http://www.feingold.org) with several of our children, and it really helped them. From what I can remember, Benjamin Feingold (a pediatrician) noticed a marked increase in hyperactivity following WW2. He looked for what kind of changes might have taken place during that period and found that the use of artificial colors and certain preservatives really took off then. His findings were that certain children are sensitive to those ingredients (akin to a food allergy). It's probably not the answer for every case (and is certainly a lot more work than giving your child a pill) but many have found it to be a big help.
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    Picture of the Day Guru zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Cut down on their sodas and candy. GIven them milk, fruit juice and fruits instead. Diet can definately have an impact on behavior of kids. In addition to parenting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippyjuan
    Cut down on their sodas and candy. GIven them milk, fruit juice and fruits instead. Diet can definately have an impact on behavior of kids. In addition to parenting.
    I agree completely. Having worked with children 3-9 with severe disabilities for 7 years and currently working with Middle School youngsters who need a little extra support in their general education classrooms; what I have observed over the years is that good parenting is crucial for postive behavior in all children. Far too many children today lack the support, proper dicipline, diet and exercise to function appropriately. With that said, many children do suffer from ADD or ADHD and it's with the combined efforts of medication, behavior modification, good parenting skills and monitoring of dosage that make a difference and prevent the child from being either over or under medicated.

    I have witnessed students that did not need medication, students who obviously do, and those who need for their parents to advocate, follow-through and monitor the dosage with their child's peditrician for their child to be successful. This is only my opinion based upon my experience with children, I am not a medical professional. I have seen a lot though... and by far parenting is a HUGE issue in the outcome for kids today. A lot of parents lack basic common sense, the willingness to spend time with their children or to seek out information that will support them.

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    Chief News Editor & Master of His Domain LPMiller's Avatar
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    i dunno why we need to drug them, when a shot of whiskey always seems to work.
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    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LPMiller
    i dunno why we need to drug them, when a shot of whiskey always seems to work.
    hells yeah! ROTFL
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    Well, this topic just happens to be kinda up my alley, so I thought I'd throw in a couple of cents.

    As far as juvenile bipolar disorder, yes it has been diagnosed much more recently than even a few years ago. For most cases, I don't buy it, unless the patient has a strong family history of bipolar I.

    As far as ADHD (which is now the new official name I guess - it's divided into subtypes of "attentive" and "hyperactive,") there's pretty good evidence that it does exist. And plenty of kids AND ADULTS are helped by its diagnosis and treatment. Is it overdiagnosed? Who's to say? What about strep throat, or migraines? I guess I don't really see the significance of the overdiagnosis argument, as you really can't prove it one way or the other, and to legislate any restrictions would cause more problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnymk
    I was taking to my chiropractor about a year ago. She guessed that half of the residents of Yardley, an upscale neigborhood near me are on antidepressants and/or anti-anxiety pills.

    These are meds which are highly addictive. For example, only 5% of people taking anti-anxiety meds can EVER get off of them. They are worse than heroin when it comes to addiction.
    I gotta take issue with this. First, chiropractors are not trained in, nor do have any expertise in either medicine or psychiatry. Nothing against them, but a guess by a chiropractor about antidepressants people are on is about as relevant as a guess by a chiropractor about what laundry detergents people use.

    Second, antidepressants are NOT, NOT, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA addictive. Like a lot of meds, for some you have to taper longer than others to reduce side effects of discontinuation, but there's no neural pathway that triggers addiction.

    As far as the addictive potential of some anti-anxiety meds, yes, many are addictive, and if not taken or prescribed responsibly, can cause problems. There's nothing inherently wrong with Xanax or Klonipin or Valium, but if abused or if prescribed incorrectly, they can cause problems. I've started people on these drugs, and I have taken them off of the drugs.

    Plus, there are many, many meds used for anxiety, like Vistaril or beta blockers, or in some cases clonidine that have NO addictive potential.

  23. #23
    Chief of Naval Operations johnnymk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houdini
    I gotta take issue with this. First, chiropractors are not trained in, nor do have any expertise in either medicine or psychiatry. Nothing against them, but a guess by a chiropractor about antidepressants people are on is about as relevant as a guess by a chiropractor about what laundry detergents people use.

    Second, antidepressants are NOT, NOT, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA addictive. Like a lot of meds, for some you have to taper longer than others to reduce side effects of discontinuation, but there's no neural pathway that triggers addiction.

    As far as the addictive potential of some anti-anxiety meds, yes, many are addictive, and if not taken or prescribed responsibly, can cause problems.
    My chiropractor had her practice in Yardley for ten years before she moved it to Newtown. She also lives there. So she has come across many many people who live in the neighborhood. This observation by her has nothing to do with her being a chiropractor. Gee, I could make the same observation and be the neighborhood bum if I knew lots of people well enough.

    Right now, I know four women in their forties and fifties who are taking Ativan and Xanax. I know that three of them are taking very low dosages. My sister is one of them who was taking .5 to 1 mg of Ativan and couldn't discontinue it without very serious side effects. She went to a center in Florida last year to help her get off of it. She met many people there who didn't realize that once you take Ativan you are chained to it, literally.

    She also goes to websites with members who testify about the horrible side effects of that nasty drug and the even more horrible consequenses when trying to get off of it. If you want, I can send you links.

    As to the other anti-anxiety drugs, do they also attack the same brain path?

    As far as anti-depressants, you may be correct.
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    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnymk
    She met many people there who didn't realize that once you take Ativan you are chained to it, literally.
    I was on 1mg Ativan for a while and never had any experiences like that.
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    Admiral Houdini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnymk
    Right now, I know four women in their forties and fifties who are taking Ativan and Xanax. I know that three of them are taking very low dosages. My sister is one of them who was taking .5 to 1 mg of Ativan and couldn't discontinue it without very serious side effects. She went to a center in Florida last year to help her get off of it. She met many people there who didn't realize that once you take Ativan you are chained to it, literally.

    She also goes to websites with members who testify about the horrible side effects of that nasty drug and the even more horrible consequenses when trying to get off of it. If you want, I can send you links.
    As I said, they can be addicting, especially if misused or misprescribed. But you're not chained to any for life. If you have a predisposition to alcoholism, it's tougher. Ativan has a very short half-life, so people often transition patients over to Klonipin or something to wean. Yes, abrupt withdrawal can be very bad, ranging from flu-like symptoms to seizures. But it is incorrect to denounce these meds so broadly. As I've said, I've put people on and taken them off the meds in question many times without problems. I've also worked in substance abuse clinics where people have major problems.

    As to the other anti-anxiety drugs, do they also attack the same brain path?
    Usually no. Sometimes they are mild anti-histamines or blood pressure pills.

    The best overall treatments for anxiety are probably types of behavioral therapy and antidepressants like Zoloft, etc.
    [/QUOTE]

  26. #26
    Lieutenant Commander ooBaKeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LPMiller
    i dunno why we need to drug them, when a shot of whiskey always seems to work.

    LOL! I'll drink the whiskey and the kids can tear the place apart!
    Peek-a-Boo!

    I don't think a little kid should be punished for somethin' he learned from a parrot! ~ Dennis the Menace

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