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Thread: Makes sense to me...revoke the alimony

  1. #1

    Makes sense to me...revoke the alimony

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/...xEaPKsmGcZ.3QA

    CLEARWATER, Fla. - Lawrence Roach agreed to pay alimony to the woman he divorced, not the man she became after a sex change, his lawyers argued Tuesday in an effort to end the payments. But the ex-wife's attorneys said the operation doesn't alter the agreement.

    The lawyers and Circuit Judge Jack R. St. Arnold agreed the case delves into relatively unchartered legal territory. They found only a 2004 Ohio case that addressed whether or not a transsexual could still collect alimony after a sex change.

    "There is not a lot out there to help us," St. Arnold said.

    Roach and his wife, Julia, divorced in 2004 after 18 years of marriage. The 48-year-old utility worker agreed to pay her $1,250 a month in alimony. Since then, Julia Roach, 55, had a sex change and legally changed her name to Julio Roberto Silverwolf.

    "It's illegal for a man to marry a man and it should likewise be illegal for a man to pay alimony to a man," Roach's attorney John McGuire said. "When she changed to man, I believe she terminated that alimony."

    Silverwolf did not appear in court Tuesday and has declined to talk about the divorce. His lawyer, Gregory Nevins, said the language of the divorce decree is clear and firm — Roach agreed to pay alimony until his ex-wife dies or remarries.

    "Those two things haven't happened," said Nevins, a senior staff attorney with the national gay rights group Lambda Legal.

    Arnold is considering the arguments. But lawyers on both sides agreed Tuesday that Roach will likely have to keep paying alimony to Silverwolf.

    The judge poked holes in several of Roach's legal arguments and noted that appeals courts have declined to legally recognize a sex change in Florida when it comes to marriage. The appellate court "is telling us you are what you are when you are born," Arnold said.

    In the Ohio case, an appeals court ruled in September 2004 that a Montgomery County man must continue to pay $750 a month in alimony to his transsexual ex-wife because her sex change wasn't reason enough to violate the agreement.

    Roach's other attorney, John Smitten, said the case falls into a legal void.

    "It's probably something that has to be addressed by the Legislature," Smitten said. "There is one other case in the entire United States. It really needs to be addressed either for or against the concept of eliminating alimony for that reason."

    Roach, who has since remarried, said has been unable to convince state and federal lawmakers to tackle the issue. He said he will continue to fight.

    "This is definitely wrong. I have a right to move forward with my life. I wish no harm and hardship to that person," Roach said of his ex-wife. "They can be the person they want to be, to find happiness and peace within themselves. I have the right to do the same. But I can't rest because I'm paying a lot of money every month."

    The legal fight is the second transsexual rights showdown in Pinellas County in less than a week. On Friday, transsexual activists from around the country packed a City Commission meeting in neighboring Largo to oppose the firing of City Manager Steve Stanton after he announced he was a transsexual.

    Despite the support, commissioners voted 5-2 to fire Stanton.
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  2. #2
    Chief of Naval Operations InfiniteNothing's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, why would Alimony be based on gender? It's not something you pay someone because of who they are.
    Despite the support, commissioners voted 5-2 to fire Stanton.
    Seems like an odd reason to fire someone
    Last edited by InfiniteNothing; 03-28-2007 at 05:12 PM.

  3. #3
    Vice Admiral BigJon's Avatar
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    I believe that alimony is really paid to whomever is raising the child until their 18th birthday. So even if she is now a he...he/she should still get the money.

  4. #4
    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing
    Out of curiosity, why would Alimony be based on gender? It's not something you pay someone because of who they are.

    Seems like an odd reason to fire someone


    Regarding the alimony, dude is supposed to pay alimony to his ex. Doesn't matter if his ex is now another dude, (s)he's still the ex.

    And why was this Stanton person fired? Any reason other than for being a transsexual? If not, then how's that not discrimination?!
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  5. #5
    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon
    I believe that alimony is really paid to whomever is raising the child until their 18th birthday. So even if she is now a he...he/she should still get the money.
    Nah, that's what child support is for. Alimony is separate from that.
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  6. #6
    Chief of Naval Operations InfiniteNothing's Avatar
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    No, he's correct. It's to pay for lost opportunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon54


    Regarding the alimony, dude is supposed to pay alimony to his ex. Doesn't matter if his ex is now another dude, (s)he's still the ex.

    And why was this Stanton person fired? Any reason other than for being a transsexual? If not, then how's that not discrimination?!
    It is discrimination but not discrimination against a protected class

  7. #7
    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing
    No, he's correct. It's to pay for lost opportunity.

    It is discrimination but not discrimination against a protected class
    Ah, I see. Also known as: discrimination is just fine if you only represent a small portion of the population.

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  8. #8
    Vice Admiral gwilks98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon
    I believe that alimony is really paid to whomever is raising the child until their 18th birthday. So even if she is now a he...he/she should still get the money.

    Is alimony the same thing as child support, or are you confusing the two?
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  9. #9
    Vice Admiral BigJon's Avatar
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    I guess I'm confusing the two...

  10. #10
    Chief of Naval Operations cheapie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon54
    Ah, I see. Also known as: discrimination is just fine if you only represent a small portion of the population.

    WTF is wrong with cross dressing?
    you can be fired because you're fat, dumb, ugly, pretty, smelly, gay, happy, nervous, tall, short, a yankees fan, or for no reason at all. just as long as you don't get fired because of your religion, race, gender, age, or ethnicity. i think that's all, right?
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  11. #11
    Chief of Naval Operations InfiniteNothing's Avatar
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    Pretty much. Is disabled one of them? And age is like >45. I guess there's no right to have a job.

  12. #12
    Rear Admiral Lower Half The Happy Squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapie
    you can be fired because you're fat, dumb, ugly, pretty, smelly, gay, happy, nervous, tall, short, a yankees fan, or for no reason at all. just as long as you don't get fired because of your religion, race, gender, age, or ethnicity. i think that's all, right?
    yankeesd fans should be fired...............from a cannon


    as for the question at hand......
    mixed feelings


    by my nature i think alimony is stupid all together, i am very big on people makig it on thier own, there should have been some sort of cash settlement as part of the divorce lump sum take it see you ater dont wanna see you see your stupid sex changed ass round here no more

    but thats not the way it is as part of the court order he must pay till the other is remarried and since the other can no longer legally remarry ithat voids that stipulation
    legally i think it should be revoked
    personally i think he should continue to pay
    1) it sucks and things that suck about others are good for me
    2) wow, what a story
    3) he has to pay a dudde alimony
    4) HA HA HA HA
    Last edited by The Happy Squirrel; 03-29-2007 at 09:27 AM.
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  13. #13
    Chief of Naval Operations InfiniteNothing's Avatar
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    That's not true. A transgender guy could legally marry a guy.
    The judge poked holes in several of Roach's legal arguments and noted that appeals courts have declined to legally recognize a sex change in Florida when it comes to marriage. The appellate court "is telling us you are what you are when you are born," Arnold said.
    Anyhow, I see alimony as kind of an annuitized lump sum payment for lost opportunity cost of taking care of a kid.
    Last edited by InfiniteNothing; 03-29-2007 at 10:17 AM.

  14. #14
    Chief of Naval Operations cheapie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing
    Anyhow, I see alimony as kind of an annuitized lump sum payment for lost opportunity cost of taking care of a kid.

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  15. #15
    Rear Admiral Lower Half The Happy Squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing
    That's not true. A transgender guy could legally marry a guy.
    is he/she actually considered transgender?


    i must not be up on my sexual lingo i thoguth transgender was having both sex organs <hemaprodite <sp?> >
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  16. #16
    Admiral Napoleon54's Avatar
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    Alimony does not mean child support. They're two entirely different things and have nothing to do with each other. During a marriage the two people are financially seen as being one. Alimony at divorce serves to compensate the one who is losing out because of the other's greater wealth or earning potential. It has nothing to do with kids or raising kids. Child support payments take care of that issue.

    Alimony can also be taken as restitution for wrong doing. The judge in my father's second divorce granted him alimony from his second wife because she had dicked him over so badly. It is an unusual situation in that it has nothing to do with their individual wealths. She was broke and she's still broke now, so he gets a part of her social security check every month. They didn't have any kids together. Judge basically said to her "you're a lowlife piece of crap and you're going to pay him restitution (alimony) for the rest of your life.
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  17. #17
    Chief of Naval Operations InfiniteNothing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Happy Squirrel
    is he/she actually considered transgender?


    i must not be up on my sexual lingo i thoguth transgender was having both sex organs <hemaprodite <sp?> >
    No, Transgender is a person who changes their gender. The gender change is not recognized by Florida so they can marry just as they could marry before.

  18. #18
    Getting back to the issue at hand, alimony *generally* is paid to the non working spouse as they have been out of the workforce, will find it hard to find a job, and are accustomed to a certain standard of living.

    That being said, sex change operations are very expensive, so the operation itself shows that either A) she is able to make money on her own or B) what he pays is too much as she can both afford to live and have the operation
    Am I alone here? Is that it?
    Am I the only one who sees.

    Maybe we can learn to be just like him.
    Wear a little uniform.
    Yes, sir.
    No, sir.
    Thank you, sir.

  19. #19
    Secretary of Defense DarkFury's Avatar
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    Deja Vu?

    http://www.gotapex.com/the-softer-si...y-or-not.html?

    Nah... but we have been here before.


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