who killed the electric car?

[mojo]

i saw this movie a couple months ago for the first time, and it interested me. of course one cannot take such a movie completely seriously (thanks, michael moore), but in reading around i'm not sure how much to believe and how much not to. so i was wondering what people here think of this movie.

opinions? thoughts?

[Cubsfan]

Never heard of it. What was the main point?

[mojo]

linky

the main point was that we started on a path to having an electric car, but that a few opponents of it (big oil, auto companies, etc) made it extinct. then a bunch of lamenting.

edmunds didn't seem to like the movie none too much

[johnnymk]

A friend of mine told me that he saw something about GM making the electric cars. Very few were sold mainly because they weren't cost beneficial, IMO.

So not shortly after they were out in the field, GM decides to take the cars away and have them destroyed. Very very weird.

They were never cheap and they weren't efficient. So why would there be this giant conspiracy to get rid of them? Even now, inexpensive efficient lightweight batteries haven't come along to fill the void.

[mojo]

part of the movie said that they bought a patent to a really efficient battery and sold it to big oil

[InfiniteNothing]

A friend of mine told me that he saw something about GM making the electric cars. Very few were sold mainly because they weren't cost beneficial, IMO.

So not shortly after they were out in the field, GM decides to take the cars away and have them destroyed. Very very weird.

They were never cheap and they weren't efficient. So why would there be this giant conspiracy to get rid of them? Even now, inexpensive efficient lightweight batteries haven't come along to fill the void.

You talking about the EV1. Those cars were never sold. Only leased. If it wasn't cost effective they should have raised prices because those things leased like hot cakes.

Batteries are very efficient. 85%+ charging or discharging I think. Cost comes down with economies of scale just like it has for the 1MM Priuses out there

GM will take another stab in 2010ish with their chevy volt. Not a true pure electric though. Electric powered with gasoline recharging I think.

Also, the Tesla-S, a four seater sedan, was just announced.

[Jeffbx]

TRUST me, there is no big conspiracy with auto companies not wanting an electric car to exist. They're in business to sell cars, lots of cars, and they don't give a hoot whether they're gas, electric, or powered by hyperactive little squirrels.

When I worked in the Saturn building, the GM Electric Car division was right next door. They did an OK business, but they weren't flying off the shelf. If I remember, they were about $400-$500/mo to lease those little cars. There were a couple of problems they ran into, but the major one was the cost of the battery.

They only leased the cars because they knew that after 3-4 years the batteries would need to be replaced at a cost of 12-15k. At the end of battery life, would GM REALLY want to sink another 12K into a used car & try to resell it on the secondary market for 80% of the cost of the new car? At that point they realized they were essentially making disposable cars & were losing a TON of money on every one they sold. The 3 year lease wasn't even covering the cost of the car let alone a profit, and there was no hope of re-selling the used ones, so they scrapped the whole project.

[johnnymk]

If I remember correctly, the State of California mandated a certain percentage of new vehicles were to have zero emissions.

GM developed these cars to meet the standards. Well, very few people wanted them at the extravagant prices and especially the limited miles they had to travel before recharging.

[mojo]

i guess any successful conspiracy would convince people it didn't exist.

i wanted an electric car at the time those were offered. and as i understand it, there was a waiting list for those cars. if the car went 100 miles on a charge (i believe that's the figure) and i drive 15 miles to work and 15 miles from, it sounds like that about covers me.

they say "very few" people wanted the electric car, but i remember differently.

and then of course they crushed the cars immediately. if they didn't want to have to supply parts for them, then why don't they crush classics? why don't they crush plymouth satellites and '65 mustangs? and why didn't they use the advances they made in the electric car and immediately use them for hybrids?

again we're behind on stuff...

[InfiniteNothing]

All cars found lessees:

GM never offered the EV1 for public sale. It was only available to consumers under a lease program that had a "no purchase" clause disallowing the vehicle's re-purchase at the conclusion of the lease. 660 Generation One EV1s were produced for the 1997 model year,[2] using lead acid batteries;[3] each found a lessee.
In December 1999, GM released approximately 200 of the new Generation Two 1999 EV1s with the new nickel metal hydride battery. Over the next 8 months, the remaining 257 Generation Two EV1s were released to certain selected lessees which initiated a lengthy wait

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

[TofuNinja]

Talking with a car guy, he said that cost of the battery was only half of the problem, the real problem, one I didn't think about and one the movie did not go into, was what do you do when that battery dies? He said in the long run, the Battery and NOT having a way to recycle or get rid of it would be more damaging to the environment then gas pollution. He felt that once they figured out how to get rid of the batteries or to recycle them Electric cars will take off.

I watched the movie with my students. It was well done, but only half of the story.

[InfiniteNothing]

I think all the nasties in batteries are either valuable (Li, Ni, Cd, Pb) and thus economically recoverable or they are easily neutralized (acids, bases, etc)

[LPMiller]

yeah, they already know how to recycle batteries. It's neither that hard or complex.

[Maarchk]

I remember at the long beach grand prix oh man like 12 years ago? They had an electric car race. And they all had to make a pitstop and change batteries quickly and that 1/3 the cars had issues getting going again. But the fact that they could do a change over in fast time seems positive.
The tesla seems like the next step to electric cars. They are just making them awesome and some what expensive. But i imagine as the technology improves and becomes more popular, there will be cheaper versions. As it is, i think the waiting list for the tesla is out to the 09 or 2k10 version.