Paypal (Ebay Auction) Complaint case

[JoyLife]

I'd like to get some opinions from fellow got|apex members.
Any comment/question will be appreciated.

Probably all of you know about the HP 9150i and Rio 500 deals.
I got one couple weeks ago, and I sold Rio at Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI...tem=1225317616

I described this item as :
Brand new in retail box, factory sealed with original shrink wrap,
never been opened, Not refurbished or Returned,

However the buyer sent me the complaint e-mail to me saying
that "factory sealed" is not true because UPS code has been
removed.

But, as I mentioned in one of the email that I sent to him,
what I meant by Factory sealed with Original shrinkwrap
was that there is no such case the package has been
opened, which proves the brand new condition of the
content. Over 90 percent of the wrap is still there.
(except where the UPC was) That's what I was trying to
emphasize in this auction, unopend item.

Do you guys think that I have a chance for winning this case?
or, I just ask for returning the product and give him refund?
I am willing to give him refund if and only if he didn't break
rest of the seal, which means in the exact same condition
before I sent to him.
I belive once he broke the seal, that means, he is buying this item.
right?

Also, wonder what kind of legal power does paypal have....
They already pulled $100 dollar away from my account...

Thanks for reading such a long message.

Have a nice day ~~

Jay



Follwoing is the letter received from paypal.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:52:17 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: PayPal: Initial Inquiry: Case ID - XXXXXX

Recently, PayPal received a complaint from a user regarding
merchandise not received or received not-as-described.
The details of this transaction are as follows:

Case Number: XXXXX
Transaction Date: 03/31/2001
Transaction Amount: 100
Buyer's Email: dmcrane@XXXXX

Under the guidelines of our Buyer Protection Policy, we reserve the
right to place a hold on the transaction in question while we
investigate this complaint.
..............
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

HERE GOES my reply to paypal.

>Case Number: XXXXXXX
>Transaction Date: 03/31/2001
>Transaction Amount: 100
>Buyer's Email: dmcrane@XXXXXX

Dear Paypal customer service:

Here is the detailed information that you have requested.

Ebay Auction Item #1225317616
New PURPLE !! Diamond RIO 500 MP3 PLAYER 64MB

Final Price : $122.50
Auction Ended At : Mar-31-01 15:02:41 PST
Total number of bids : 37
Seller User ID : mijongc

1) Tracking Number of Shipment: 03001290000756823934
2) USPS Priority Mail with Delivery confirmation
3) No insurance requested by buyer.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am including following e-mails that I have shared with
the buyer regarding this auction for your information.
Buyer: David Crane <dmcrane@>
Seller: Jay Kim ,jjongi@>
Following e-mails are in order that was received.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

======================================
From: "David Crane" <dmcrane@>
To: "Jay Kim" <jjongi@>
Subject: RE: rio 500 auction
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:18:30 -0400

I received the Rio today and it was missing the
UPC code. New in box,
factory sealed, never before opened as stated on
the auction should have
included the UPC code. Please clarify.


======================================
From: Jay Kim [jjongi@]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:54 PM
To: David Crane
Subject: RE: rio 500 auction

To David Crane:

Thanks for letting me know that you received the
package.

For the question regarding missing UPC code:

I was trying to state the description of the item as
clearly
as possible. However sometimes, it is impossible to
include every details in the description. And, what
I stated in my action were all true.

I belive all the Rio auctions that is eligible for
$50 rebate clearly specify that they have UPC codes
and RECEIPTs are included.

In general, there is no way you can get the retail
receipt from the auction purchase except the seller
is a dealer.
Therefore, it is impossible to get the rebate from
the auction purchase.

Also, in auction at Ebay, you CANNOT just assume the
condition of the item. Like the UPC code, if it is
one of the important key for the selling, then
sellers intend to include the fact to get more bids.
If you were not sure, and if it was not so clear about
the description of the item, then you should ask sellers
questions through e-mail.

This should clearify the question you might have.
If you have further question/comment, feel free to
send me an e-mail.

And, enjoy your new Rio 500 MP3 player.

Sincerly,

Jay Kim


======================================
From: "David Crane" <dmcrane@>
To: "Jay Kim" <jjongi@>
Subject: RE: rio 500 auction
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:55:11 -0400

You're auction stated that it was "Brand New in
Retail Box - Factory sealed
with Original shrinkwrap".
However, it was not factory sealed. The seal was
broken. It is not possible
to remove the upc
without breaking the seal. So, if it is factory
sealed, it must have the
upc.
The item was clearly not in the condition that you
stated it was in.
I would like the upc or the $50 that I would have
gotten if the item was in
the condition stated.


===========================================
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Kim <jjongi@>
Subject: RE: rio 500 auction
To: David Crane <dmcrane@>

To David Crane:

What I meant by Factory sealed with Original shrinkwrap
was that there is no such case the package has been
opened, which proves the brand new condition of the
content. That's what I was trying to emphasize in
this auction, unopend item.

There were couple hundred of RIO 500 that were sold
as New, Factory sealed, in orginal shrinkwrap. And I
am pretty sure most of them doesn't have UPC
code on it. (unless the seller specified that the item
is good for $50 rebate) And sold for over $130.00.

As I mentioned earlier, in auction at Ebay, you CANNOT
just assume the condition of the item. You should have
sent me an e-mail asking a question regarding this
matter.

Also, Ebay clearly mentioned the following statement
their first page of the help for buyers as the FIRST
TIP.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
1. Know the item you bid on

If a description of an item is unclear, be sure to
clarify the description with the seller before you
bid. Please also note that it is up to the sellers to
select their own payment options and by bidding on an
item, you are agreeing to these terms. It is the
bidder's responsibility to make sure that payment
terms are clearly understood up front.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buyerguide/bidding-tips.html


Thanks.

Jay Kim


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
End of list of emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hopely these emails can be helpful to solve the problems.
If you have any question, just let me know.

Sincerly yours,

Jay Kim

[TheLoneGunman]

A literal interpretation says that a product missing a UPC is not "factory sealed" or "original condition"

Suppose that your bidder says that they wanted to use the UPC for a rebate and that is why they bid the price that they did. Your shipping a product w/o UPC deprived them of this.

Also, they could just say they wanted to give it as a gift and a product in a box w/o a UPC makes a cheesy gift.

You have got to admit that if the roles were reversed, you could easily make either of those arguments as the buyer.

I would suggest attempting to negotiate a settlement. If the guy just wants a few bucks off, then maybe it is worth the hassle. If he doesn't want it at all, try to first sell it to the #2 bidder. If #2 takes it, then just do the deal. If #2 won't take it, then push them to make #1 keep it.

[i6s1]

I say give the guy his money back if he didn't open it. It was his fault for not making sure it had a UPC, and yours for not mentioning that it had no UPC. If you can both be happy with a refund, then do that.