Big cases versus small cases...thoughts?

**Bires** · 10-12-2002, 08:47 PM

It has always been my opinion that a smaller case is better because what's important in case cooling is to:

1. avoid eddy currents of hot air that go nowhere
2. exchange the air in the case as often as possible

I've been reading a lot of hardware builds and case reviews (I've been bored) and they frequently look for really big cases.

So...would someone please tell me why a bigger (cavernous) case is alledgely better for cooling.

**sbp** · 10-12-2002, 08:50 PM

I like big cases since they are easier to work in.

**NuTs62** · 10-12-2002, 08:52 PM

what i've always assumed was that the bigger the case, the better the air circulation is.. more space to work with, and the more you can expand later.. but those are just my assumptions, don't have anything to back 'em up..

**Showtime** · 10-12-2002, 09:13 PM

If you have the room and don't lan, than a lrg case is better.
You have room to move cables, etc. to promote air flow. As sb said, easier to work on. You can "grow" your system by adding drives etc. My antec started with one cd drive and one hd. I now have 3 cd units(rom/burn/dvd) and 3 hds with room for more(DVD burner?).
Its has great airflow with 5 fans and all you see are rounded cables. I had room to hide all the power wires etc.

I'm painting the antec again and I had to stuff all that in a smaller case and its a mess.

I really like those small cube cases. When they make one w/ agp and 2 more pci slots and a decent mobo, I'm getting one. I just want to be able to run a P4 with my "old" ti200 for lan parties/2nd system.

-jel

**irwin** · 10-12-2002, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

I really like those small cube cases. When they make one w/ agp and 2 more pci slots and a decent mobo, I'm getting one. I just want to be able to run a P4 with my "old" ti200 for lan parties/2nd system.

-jel

How about one with 1 agp and 1 pci?

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...cription=SS51G

**gear02** · 10-12-2002, 10:08 PM

I think big cases are better. There's more room so there's more air that can disappate the heat. Plus, it's expandable in case you want to add more hard drives and stuff.

Take a look at the case I just got.

It's not really that big, but it's purty =) I decided to go for this rather than that acrylic case (see thread on transparent cases).

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage....170-007-07.JPG

**Mpowered** · 10-12-2002, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by passwird

How about one with 1 agp and 1 pci?

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...cription=SS51G

I'm thinking of getting a couple of these for the Bimma. Nice and small and have an AGP slot and I could even throw in a 5.1 sound card and a DVD player. Now if I can only figure out how to get forced air into the trunk...

**Ladogaboy** · 10-13-2002, 01:44 AM

I like big cases. Easier to work in. More room to fit things in. What more is there to say? The cooling has never been an issue for me, but then again, I've almost always had big cases.

**Showtime** · 10-13-2002, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by Mpowered

I'm thinking of getting a couple of these for the Bimma. Nice and small and have an AGP slot and I could even throw in a 5.1 sound card and a DVD player. Now if I can only figure out how to get forced air into the trunk...

You dont necessarily need forced air in the trunk. Theres plenty of free flowing air back there. A P4 with a stock fan will work fine.

Pw,
Need one slot for a sound and one for a nic or etc....

-jel

**bachviet** · 10-13-2002, 08:55 AM

I like big case better but the only disadvantage is space!

**irwin** · 10-13-2002, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

You dont necessarily need forced air in the trunk. Theres plenty of free flowing air back there. A P4 with a stock fan will work fine.

Pw,
Need one slot for a sound and one for a nic or etc....

-jel

But it already has onboard lan and sound.

**Showtime** · 10-13-2002, 02:49 PM

They really improved it over the 1st generations. I still need one more bay for a burner. Maybe I could cut out a slot for it since xp doesnt need a boot disk.....
Might make a fun December or June project.
-jel

**Ladogaboy** · 10-13-2002, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

They really improved it over the 1st generations. I still need one more bay for a burner. Maybe I could cut out a slot for it since xp doesnt need a boot disk.....
Might make a fun December or June project.
-jel

You could just put a combo drive in there...

**Merlin** · 10-13-2002, 05:17 PM

I've run out of space in cases before and didn't like it. So I've gone with a larger model. Not the biggest but one that fits quite a bit. Kind of like my women.

Bottom line for me is I'd rather get a bigger case and leave part of it empty than get a smaller case and not have room for a component I want to add.

**~~Cantacuzene~~** · 10-13-2002, 05:36 PM

From a cooling standpoint, think of it like a crowded apartment, say during a party. When you have 80 people packed into a tiny apartment, it gets hot fast, not matter how how many fans you have. If you put those same 80 people into a ballroom at a convention center, it will be much cooler. Same idea for computers. Pack tons of components into a tiny little case and it will get hotter faster.

**Bires** · 10-13-2002, 06:20 PM

It would warrant an investigation. I currently have my P4 in a fairly large case (about 1.4 cubic feet). I have another case I was thinking about modding that is barely 1 cubic foot.

My thoughts were this: when we design buildings, we think about the number of times air is exchanged in a set amount of time. In a smaller case, air would be exchanged more often, which would seem to mean that the same fans would cool the case better, because hot air is exhausted and replaced with cooler outside air more often.

One other thing that I don't see used much anymore is baffles. I use one to keep the air from building up near the net card and sound card. This makes sure the current travels from the intake fan to the HDs, to the Video, to the CPU, and out. If I had some pics of the inside of my comp I could show it (but I'm lazy).

I'm thinking of doing some significant urban renewel of my computer in coming weeks, including heavily modding an old Enlight '97 case, which is significantly smaller than current popular cases.

**Mpowered** · 10-13-2002, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

You dont necessarily need forced air in the trunk. Theres plenty of free flowing air back there. A P4 with a stock fan will work fine.

Pw,
Need one slot for a sound and one for a nic or etc....

-jel

You think so? I was thinking that during summertime the trunk would get pretty hot. Especially in a black car. Forced air is definately overkill but it does need some access to cool air. Winter time wouldnt really be a problem for heat. I dont know about -20 degree weather but most of the winter I could probably do some serious overclocking.

**Showtime** · 10-14-2002, 04:58 PM

M,
Put a thermometer back there and measure the air temps. I live in CA and my car gets very hot but usually my trunk isnt that bad. My water bottles usually stay cool or luke warm.

Df,
Bring something new to the table we've already covered the "room to grow" thing. I expect new insight from the mightiest poster in the land.

As far as that other junk, "me have no idea what you talkin."

-jel

**Hoser** · 10-14-2002, 10:45 PM

It all depends on what that particular computer is being used for. For my normal use computers, I like to have two external (DVD, CDRW) drive bays, and two internal drive bays available.

If the computer is a server, then the bigger the case is, the better.

No matter what size case I have, there is always one fan in the front bringing in air and at least one fan in the back exhausting air. I always use rounded cables and use nylon wire ties to keep everything neat.

**smurphy** · 10-15-2002, 08:12 AM

I have the Shuttle SS51G and it is very stable and fast. I have it loaded with a P4 2.26B GHz, PC2700/DDR333 512MB RAM CL2, 60GB HD with 2MB CACHE and a TI4400. This is all stock stuff with no overclocking. It runs at 23dBs!!!!! and is very fast. I have had it for a month now and will be running some test for numbers soon. The Tech Report has a story on this with some numbers using a Ti4600 and a P4 2.54B GHz system.

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2...1/index.x?pg=1

Also, Intel has just released the 845PE chipset and Shuttle has a newer version using this chipset coming next week, SB51G. I'll be looking at it to replace my main gaming rig. This Intel chipset is faster than the SiS chipset from what I have read but I have not seen any numbers yet to confirm this.

Cheers,
Scott Murphy

**Jeffbx** · 10-15-2002, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Bires
My thoughts were this: when we design buildings, we think about the number of times air is exchanged in a set amount of time. In a smaller case, air would be exchanged more often, which would seem to mean that the same fans would cool the case better, because hot air is exhausted and replaced with cooler outside air more often.

Think of it this way as well:

With a smaller case, there is less air to exchange, which means less air to absorb the heat. Therefore the existing air will get hot more quickly, making it necessary to replace it faster. So yes, you can replace the air faster because it's a smaller volume, but you'll have to do that anyway to get the same amount of cooling as a larger air mass.

Take it to the extreme: say put your pc into a box 1 mm larger than the components. It'll be too hot in there in just a few seconds, and you'll have to circulate a ton of air to cool it, and you'll be replacing the air almost continually.

Now the opposite - your case is the size of a football staduim. Turn on your PC - how long until you have to replace the air in there? Never, probably. Don't bother with fans.

Of course, that's an extreme example, but I think if you have more air to circulate, you'll cool the components better than circulating less air more often.

**iDave** · 10-15-2002, 11:08 AM

Air exchange rates are certainly part of the equation. You should also consider the volume of the case, the amount of heat generated and where it’s coming from. Jeffbx put the volume issue in good perspective above.

Now, how hot will you be running things? Some want no noise from their computer and are able to put together a system with almost no fans (not sure of the power supply options here) by carefully choosing “cool” components. Of course there are some trade offs with performance.

In some rare instances

you find someone who wants to push things to the limit. Then it is matter of what you are pushing (just the cpu, cpu and graphics, everything?) and how much you are pushing it. I’ve read of one setup that immersed everything in a nonconductive liquid. Actually, circulation was still an issue with that setup and it seem that cost may have play a role in it somewhere.

Personally, if I do not have to carry the thing around, I prefer a large case. It is easier to work with and handles the cooling chores better. For moderate cooling needs one or two case fans are enough. And, if you are careful with the cables, there should not be any dead spots by virtue of the air currents created by the heat. Heat rises ... etc. I think this is one of the reason you don’t see the use of baffles as much. It is also why power supplies (with their fans) tend to be in the top of cases. If I do decide to start pushing (Ocing) everything, then the large case allows me to better place heat sinks, pipes, fans, baffles, etc.

**kain9i6** · 10-17-2002, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

They really improved it over the 1st generations. I still need one more bay for a burner. Maybe I could cut out a slot for it since xp doesnt need a boot disk.....
Might make a fun December or June project.
-jel

Get a usb CD/DVD drive and just put the burner in the box..