South Koreans Protest U.S. Military

[sbp]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._us_military_3

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - About 700 activists burned an American flag and demanded the U.S. military leave South Korea after two U.S. soldiers were acquitted of negligent homicide charges in a traffic accident that killed two Korean girls.

"Let's drive out American troops!" the protesters chanted, shaking fists in front of the Korean War Museum in central Seoul.

Shoving matches erupted when riot police blocked the demonstrators from marching on the nearby U.S. military base. No injuries or arrests were reported.

In two separate U.S. military trials earlier this week, Sgt. Fernando Nino and Sgt. Mark Walker were acquitted of negligent homicide charges in the deaths of two 13-year-old school girls that their armored vehicle hit and killed on June 13.

Walker is from Acworth, Ga. Nino's hometown has not been released. Both are soldiers in the 2nd U.S. Infantry Division.

The acquittals prompted an outcry from South Korean activists, who called the trials a sham.

The U.S. military appealed to South Koreans to trust the judgment of the military panels and offered an "apology and deepest sympathies" to the victims' families.

South Korea's Defense Ministry said in a statement Saturday that it was not completely happy with the verdicts, but warned against using them to stoke anti-American sentiment.

Saturday's protesters, including 150 high school students, demanded that the American soldiers be retried in a South Korean court.

The U.S. military has jurisdiction over its soldiers accused of crimes while on duty. There are 37,000 American soldiers based in South Korea.

Walker and Nino were on a training mission near the border with North Korea when their mine-clearing vehicle struck Shim Mi-son and Shin Hyo-sun.

South Korean political parties have called for revision of a U.S.-South Korean military accord to grant South Korea more jurisdiction in cases involving U.S. soldiers.


Dipsh1t protesters burn an American flag during an anti-U.S. rally near the Yongsan U.S. Army Base in Seoul, Saturday, Nov. 23, 2002.


An ungrateful South Korean moron prepares to throw eggs toward the U.S. Army Camp Casey during an anti-U.S. rally in Dongducheon, north of Seoul, Friday, Nov. 22, 2002.

[molecularfire]

I say we give them what they want. We have other allies in the Southeast Asian area so we really don't need them. Let's face it... if the U.S. and China ever get into a war, it's not going to be a conventional war anyways.

[sbp]

Before and even during the trails, there was protests.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nm/asia_135125
"The accident, in which the two 13-year-old Korean schoolgirls were crushed by a tank-like minesweeping vehicle as they walked on a road in their village, prompted apologies from several U.S. commanders as well as Secretary of State Colin Powell.

The injured were among about 60 protesters who rushed a phalanx of hundreds of South Korean riot police wielding clubs and shields in the latest of dozens of sometimes violent protests since the girls were killed on June 13.

Mun and others shaved their heads in protest and several activists cut their fingers and wrote anti-U.S. slogans in blood." wackos.

This vehicle was going uphill and around a bend.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/32...S_Korea+.shtml
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/met...easoldier.html
"The girls were walking on the right side of the road when they were hit but Walker's vision on that side was obscured by a crane on the mine-clearing vehicle he was driving. In addition, the 57-ton vehicle was making a right-hand turn up a hill, further impeding his view, Womack argued."

Yeah, the US is sitting there defending these fscktards and they bash. Agreed, its time to leave and let them to defend themselves from the North. See how long they'll last.

[attgig]

protests like these just make me sick..

everyone forgets why they're really protesting...and just rouse up as much hatred as they can...


2 girls died.

[gear02]

Well, I think such anti-american protests are valid. I mean, two Korean girls were killed by our military.

I don't understand why we station soldiers in so many places, especially when the local population doesn't want us there. I mean, heck our forces are basically preventing North Korea from crushing South Korea. I say, if they want us out, let's get out of there and let them beg for us to come back when they get invaded.

[sbp]

The US has apologized repeatedly and compensation will be given. Yes, that pales in comparison to two children lives.

These anti-American protestors love to protest all the time. As attgig points out this is about the mental dwarfs agenda.

Many of the numskull protestors are younguns who don't care about the past. Without the US, there would be no South Korea. Say that again: Without the US, there would be no South Korea. They'd all be suffering and starving under a ruthless Stalinist regime as North Koreans are. And US service people put up with a lot of crap there.

Its pathetic they can run down the US then hide behind big daddy protector. The Cold War is over, we don't have to defend these or any other ingrates. But we will continue to since we are too damn nice.

North Korea has some lovely things in store for South Korea.
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reu...21122_436.html

"North Korea is building a plant that by the middle of the decade could produce enough uranium for two or more nuclear weapons a year, a CIA analysis said on Friday.

The CIA previously estimated that North Korea had one or two nuclear weapons using plutonium produced before 1992."

[kimchicowboy]

Originally posted by gear02
Well, I think such anti-american protests are valid. I mean, two Korean girls were killed by our military.

I don't understand why we station soldiers in so many places, especially when the local population doesn't want us there. I mean, heck our forces are basically preventing North Korea from crushing South Korea. I say, if they want us out, let's get out of there and let them beg for us to come back when they get invaded.

we're there to balance the power against North Korea and China (in the past, North Korea and the USSR). keep in mind now that NK has nuclear weapons and has ALWAYS wanted reunification under THEIR terms.

but yes, i'm very shocked that they didn't get courtmartialed. my roommate is a part of the army and told me that these two soldiers should get tried under a US court because they will most likely get court-martialed and their life will be scarred by that: no jobs, no loans, no nothing. something went wrong.

[hang10wannabe]

it is incredibly unforetunate about that occurance, i believe that the US military should alter some protocol when doing exercises, i mean you wouldnt see a vehicle like that running around streets that people walk in places in europe or here. granted that there are a lot of mines left in the korean area and other asian areas that these vehicles are needed for, but it is a bit reckless on these two troops parts.

that said, i agree with the verdict of not punishing these two soldiers for doing their duty. and i doubt this protesting will let up for some time, i can just hope that the families can forgive the US and we can move on with our lives. and i hope that no more death comes as a result of these two girls deaths, i doubt these two girls would want a lot of people to die.

[Napoleon]

US is at fault, but the South Koreans shouldbehave! (with Austin Powers' accent

[Cantacuzene]

I dunno, yes we saved them, but how long can we hold that against everyone. 300 years from now saying, "if it wasnt for you you'd be speaking german/chinese/russian/english." wont carry so much weight. What is the statute of limitations on 'gratefulness.'

[chrissy]

When Donnie was over there a couple years ago, he was told that during protests they were not allowed off base and some other safty things. One thing that stuck with us was the fact that most of the protesters are soft on the North Koreans. Gotta remember some of that is mixed in there too when you see this.

[ArkiStan]

This is a very complicated issue, and like most other problems in the world, is very hard to get a clear understanding of the situation by simply observing from a single standpoint. Being a "youngun" myself, I have very little background on this issue, but as a Language (Interpreting) Officer serving in the Korean military, I think I've gotten some good exposure to it since I constantly talk with both US and Korean military personnel. Here's what I think:

I completely understand why you guys think South Koreans are absolutely ungrateful bastards. I probably would have thought the same if I were in your shoes. Yes, it is true that South Korea would not be what it is today without the military support of the US. And there is no way that South Korea could defend itself at this point in time. As a Korean, it's sad to say, Korea just would not make it on its own. It's the truth.

I largely agree with SBP. "Many of the numskull protestors are younguns who don't care about the past. Without the US, there would be no South Korea." I wouldn't use the exact same wording but I do agree; some Koreans actually think that if the US forces simply leave the Korean penninsula everything will be solved. Many don't care about the past, and a greater problem is some don't even KNOW the past.

Though, there is one thing that you must understand. Most protestors protest despite being well aware of our situation and our past. Then why are they protesting? It's just their way of reminding the US that "we're here and we have a voice." As I mentioned before, the US military is a very essential and needed entity in Korea. The US knows that, and many times Koreans think they are unnecessarily being taken take advantage of. It's a lot of history to get into, but most exchanges with the US, whether they be political, economical or cultural are greatly, if not completely, infuenced and controlled by the military relationship between Korea and US. This is a very subjective matter and you may agree or disagree, but many times Koreans felt they got the $hit end of the stick when it comes to deals with the US. You probably won't hear too much about all this in USA Today or the 8 o'clock news over there in the states, but spend a couple years here IN Korea and you'll feel it quite clearly. I'm not saying Koreans are completely ungrateful. They're just afraid that if they continue to sit quietly with folded arms, they'll lose all their rights. The protests are Koreans' way of reminding the US that the Koreans are not just puppets.

Now I don't completely agree with all the protests, but I sorta see why Koreans might think they're necessary. I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong here. I just hope you learned something you didn't know. Sorry for sounding so neutral, but it's hard to opinionated when I have so many ties in both sides.

[molecularfire]

Good point Arkistan, but let me ask you a question (I'm not doing this to debate btw:... I really don't know the answer and would like info. from someone with more exposure than me). Is the U.S. presence in S. Korea really necessary anymore. From the S. Korean standpoint, I can see people being worried about N. Korea, but with their economic problems, and the loss of the USSR is N. Korea really going to want to invade S. Korea at this standpoint. Heck, they already have a nuclear bomb and it's not going to take more than one to take out S. Korea so why haven't they used it already if they want to take out/over S. Korea. At this point, from what I've read, N. Korea wants money more than anything else, and S. Korea isn't exactly the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
From the U.S. point of view, how useful is S. Korea really. We have a lot of money invested in a bunch of the little tiger countries and so we have a presence in Southeast asia should anything break out there. Heck, even with the bomb, N. Korea is not a threat to us. The only problem would be from China and 1) they've got their own problems to worry about right now and 2) if we fight them, it isn't going to be a conventional war anyways. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[sbp]

Criticism can be given but the way these morons act its like the US is worse thing ever. Fsck them.

And yes the whining from the Olympics is recalled. Then it was the World Cup showing off.

Its doubtful South Korea would take the lame bashing the US has.

Accidents happen. Everyone remember 2 US army soldiers were run over by 68 ton US tank recently during training exercises in the US?

Its amazing how a country with twice the population, much stronger economy and more military spending than its rival, can't handle that rival by itself.

South Korea population: 48.324 million
GDP: $865 billion
Military manpower - fit for military service: 8,990,488 million
Military expenditures: $12.8 billion
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ks.html


North Korea population: 22,224,195 million
GDP: $21.8 billion
Military manpower - fit for military service: 3,619,535 million
Military expenditures: $5.124 billion
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/kn.html

Time for them to take care of their own dayum selves.

[Cantacuzene]

Oh SBP, how we selectively remeber history. In the Korean War, North Korea was not the problem, and it still isnt today.

China
Population: 1,284,303,705
GDP: - $5.56 trillion
Military manpower fit for military service: 203,003,036
Military expenditures: $65 billion
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ch.html

More than a match for SK.

[sbp]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
Oh SBP, how we selectively remeber history. In the Korean War, North Korea was not the problem, and it still isnt today.

China
Population: 1,284,303,705
GDP: - $5.56 trillion
Military manpower fit for military service: 203,003,036
Military expenditures: $65 billion
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ch.html

More than a match for SK.

These activists need to remember this before biting the hand that protects.

[speedracer120]

I agree those protestors are mostly idiots. I'm not going to say that those people specifically have a valid point, especially not in the way that they are conducting themselves. As chrissy pointed out, some of the organizers are pinkos, so they have somekind of agenda in protesting and such. But I think most of the "youngun"s are there because they feel as if the country is being lorded by the US. Even as a loyal US citizen, I get the feeling that our country is at time a little overbearing on some issues. I agree with them that the SOFA (status of forces agreement) is a little too one-sided in favor of the US. As an American, I understand the need to protect soldiers, especially when on official business and on orders, but it still comes off as arrogance, even to me. I have no issues with the military, I for one like the military. But is there a reason why we should maintain a presence nearly everywhere in the world? Yeah, Red China is a pain in the ass, but that's what nuclear missles are in existence, it's the big ass stick waiting to be swung if someone gets outta line. Hell, I think it might be a good thing for our military to leave Korea. I for one see reasons for there to be another war on the Peninsula, it might create more ideal situations for the progress of not only politics in Korea, but better infrastructure, opportunities to right a lot wrongs here. I don't idealize war, I wish it upon no one, but as one with a history degree, I see not only the wrongs and hurts, but the positive effects they have. I don't want to list them, cause this isn't a thesis, but nevertheless they are there.

BTW, I'm stuck in Korea till Dec. 17, so I have a unique perspective of being able to watch the AFN Korea(Armed Forces Network Korea)broadcast bulletins of curfews and what not, and the next minute watch the Korean media sensationalize and manipulate the facts.

my $.02

[Cantacuzene]

Lets not forget that the leader of North Korea is a complete lunatic, even teh chinese recognize how crazy he is.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by sbp
Criticism can be given but the way these morons act its like the US is worse thing ever. Fsck them.

And yes the whining from the Olympics is recalled. Then it was the World Cup showing off.

Its doubtful South Korea would take the lame bashing the US has.

Accidents happen. Everyone remember 2 US army soldiers were run over by 68 ton US tank recently during training exercises in the US?

Its amazing how a country with twice the population, much stronger economy and more military spending than its rival, can't handle that rival by itself.

Boy, it doesn't take that long of a list of reasons to completely come to despise a single nation of 48 million, does it?? The Korean protestors could sure use somebody like you!

[sbp]

Well ArkiStan, the message can be sugarcoated or blunt, but either way it is the same in the long run.

Wednesday Nov.27th: Bush Apologizes Over South Korea Schoolgirl Deaths

SEOUL (Reuters) - President Bush apologized to the South Korean people on Wednesday over a road accident in which a U.S. Army vehicle crushed two schoolgirls to death, prompting anti-American protests.

At a special news conference on Wednesday following days of protest, including the student firebombing of a U.S. Army base, U.S. Ambassador Thomas Hubbard passed on Bush's apology.

The response to the apology:
Hey, at least its not being burned!

Has link to video of firebombing: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...korea_usa_dc_3

Take a look at the pictures then take a look at the video. But damn if you say anything about it-thats being mean.

[sbp]

Thursday, 28 November, 2002 Seoul restaurants bar US diners

Some restaurants and pubs in the South Korean capital are refusing to serve Americans amid anger over the acquittal of two US soldiers for the road deaths of two teenage girls.

"Americans are not welcome here," read a sign on the door and a window of Zeno, a restaurant in Seoul.

[sbp]

12-07-02 http://www.news-journal.com/news/con...-US-Prote.html

About 15,000 people carrying candles protested across the street from the American Embassy on Saturday, in the largest show of anti-U.S. sentiment in years.

The protesters, upset with what they say is preferential treatment to American soldiers in Korea, booed and chanted ``President Bush apologize!'' and ``Let's drive out the murderous American GIs!''

Protesters distributed leaflets urging citizens not to buy American goods including Coca-Cola, Marlboro cigarettes and McDonald's hamburgers.

News reports said there were also smaller protests in 40 provincial towns across the country, and between 50,000 and 100,000 Koreans turned out in all. Police could not confirm the figures.

A six-person vocal group sang a song during the rally in Seoul that was rife with American slogans and a refrain of ``Yankee go home!''

-------------------
Its understood that South Korea is growing up and finding its voice. That after being ruled by the Japanese and then events after WWII, South Koreans want to take pride in their country. Thats fine. But remember it can go overboard and scapegoating can be easily done. Another thing is other countries like Ireland had bad times also and yet don't behave this way.

Its also realized there are valid reasons for not being thrilled with the US military there like pollution and crime. Thats fine. In addition just having power and being visible causes resentment. But part of being mature is knowing how to offer suggestions and taking responsiblity for one's self. It doesn't help US-South Korea relations to go over overboard again and again. This is not the first time these sort of events have happened, is it? And there will be a next time.

[OC]

I say we get the hell out and let them fend for themselves, militarily speaking.

-OC

[ArkiStan]

SBP, I see you've read many many US-based articles that illustrate the protests and anti-US sentiments that are currently arising in Korea. I clearly see you weren't a happy camper when you saw the Koreans' behavior in the Olympics(or was it the many many US-based articles that described the Koreans' behavior in the Olympics). I understand why you think S.Koreans should be thankful for the US defending them from N. Korea and should stop complaining. Yet, I haven't heard you say a single thing about WHY you think the Koreans might be so angry, other than because they are "ungrateful."

Like you said, the Koreans might not be electing the most intelligent means of protesting, but Korea has proposed many times over the past years, with no success, to ammend parts of SOFA (the Status of Forces Agreement) that are extremely biased. This recent incident is an example of how biased the agreement can be.

SBP, put yourself in the Koreans' shoes, or if that's too much to ask, simply take a couple steps back for a second and have a nice cold look at the situation. If I were driving around in New York and accidently killed two American girls and I was acquitted of negligent homicide, wouldn't you be irritated? especially if the US had no jurisdictional rights over me. You'd probably protest. SBP, you said, "It doesn't help US-South Korea relations to go over overboard again and again. This is not the first time these sort of events have happened, is it? And there will be a next time." Yes, and unless the Status of Forces Agreement is ammended, killers will stand acquitted on all charges again and again and again. I agree the US helped Korean tremendously in defending their country over the past half century. For that reason, do you think Korea should just sit quiet because of that? No straight-minded patriot would. Hell, Americans wouldn't. They're the most patriotic people I've seen in the world!

On the other hand, personally, if I were one of the two GI's that were involved in the mishap, I would honestly hope to stand acquitted on all charges, cause MY ass is on the line now. Of course, there will be people who are upset if that were to happen.

As you can see, everybody is selfish and tends to only see situations from their own point of view. All I ask is to choose a standpoint after you've put in some effort to see the whole picture from all perspectives. SBP, if you posted the above comments after doing all that, then what can I say? You're opinion is as gold as any. Everybody is entitled to their own emotions and opinions.


(p.s. Yet, some emotions and opinions are just plain silly, like the impulsive, thoughtless ones that sound like a drunken jock at a frat party talkin about their rival school or the girl that dumped them:

Originally posted by A
I say we get the hell out and let them fend for themselves, militarily speaking.

Originally posted by B
I say we give them what they want. We have other allies in the Southeast Asian area so we really don't need them. Let's face it... if the U.S. and China ever get into a war, it's not going to be a conventional war anyways.

If I brought up SOFA to these guys, they'd probably want to sit on it. )

[TofuNinja]

We as Americans value the freedom of speech. When something wrong happened to us we acted much like these Koreans....Remember September 11th? Maybe it is like comparing apples and oranges but they are still both fruit. The Koreans feel they were wronged and so they want the United States to leave. We felt 9-11 was wrong so we are fighting arabs....more or less.....

The burning of an AMerican flag makes me sick but so does the idea of riots in which the happened when the African AMericans did when they felt they were wronged by the Rodney King Police trail.

Does this anger me? Yes, but at the same Time I understand their point of view, we would act the exact same way and have.

What? You saw we Americans are more civilized? I let you answer that question.

[speedracer120]

Anyone read "The Ugly American" or even hear about it. We Americans have a certain unconcious arrogance wherever we go. The protests also have something to do with this attitude.

On another matter. Why so much anger over Koreans protesting the American military and such, when the French and German people do the same crap over going to war with Iraq. Give me a break, the French are bigger ingrates than these young Koreans who are protesting an injustice.

Korea is a country where even the superiors must be held responsible for the acts of underlings. For example, recently the Chief Prosecutor of the Seoul area resigned over an incident where a suspected murderer died during interogation. EVERYTHING is different in Korea. Westernized or not, Korea is Korea. Don't expect the same treatment, same procedures in a foreign country.

[sbp]

Thank you for your posts.

ArkiStan: irritated? Yes, but be destructive? Heck no. Don't forget there have been diplomats who run over people and do other serious crimes here and there was little outcry.

speedracer120: The French are not respected and Germany can't even muster up defense spending. Hey, if people want to peacefully protest thats fine. But praise and support should be given also. "Its easier to criticize than give praise."

TofuNinja: there has been much restraint shown after 9/11 attacks by Islamofascists who wish to impose Islam on the world and who believe that anyone who dare disagree is an infidel that needs to be killed.

Yes, what happened in S Korea was an accident, but the way some behave it was like done on purpose.

Sad thing is South Korea has taken a black eye with these events. I also suspect some of this is fuel by racism. "Go home white devil. Go home n word."

Something is wrong when the US is viewed as being bad, while North Korea is viewed as good.

They want us to leave, we'll leave. No need for the Status of Forces Agreement to be amended. No need to worry about events like this happening again. No need to deal with Yankees certain unconcious arrogance {like other countries doesn't have the same? Or is this Ugly American another myth while folks from other countries get a pass for the same boorish behavior?}. Seems a simple enough solution. If US troops are not in South Korea, then there will be no more protesting about that. But then the US would get bashed for leaving and not caring about South Korea. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

So when North Korea acts up again, a polite decline should be given. See, someone is not insulted repeatly then ran back to when the crap hits the fan. That does not fly. Welcome to the big bad world baby. "Show respect, get respect. Act poorly, get treated as such."

[Grimm]

Accidents happen. It was a terrible tragedy. But... If it had been a S. Korean soldier driving the vehical the results of the inquiry would have probably been the same.

Protesting the US presence over this incident is assinine. Protest the verdict, protest the system, that's all well and good, but telling us that we are not wanted and to go home? Fine, I am all in favor of that. They should vote on it, put up or shut up. If 50+% don't want us there we should leave. Then they can join North Korea and all hate the US. If they want us there, then they can put away their signs, eggs and firebombs and STFU.

[ArkiStan]

Ok, Grimm, SBP and everybody else...For one second, can everybody just stop getting so wound up about how S.Korea is hating on their "sugardaddy" and how much they'll regret it in the long run and will come back hiding behind big daddy protector again when evil N.Korea comes along... Ok That might actually happen in the future... but THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!! You're so busy defending yourselves from the firebombs that you're not giving yourselves one short chance to contemplate why they might be being thrown in the first place. (And trust me, there's more to this than simply the Koreans being ungrateful fsckstards)

Not a single person posting in this thread is really addressing the important issue here. YES, The accident was just that: an ACCIDENT!! The GI's clearly didn't kill the two girls intentionally. Evidence clearly shows that the drivers did not have a good view of the girls when they were coming around the bend. I know many Koreans were pissed off at the mere accident alone, but the **** really hit the fan when the two GI's were acquitted of negligent homicide.

SBP, you said "don't forget there have been diplomats who run over people and do other serious crimes here and there was little outcry." Well, how were they charged and what were their sentences? Most likely, citizens' reactions to the incidents were relatively passive because appropriate sentences were charged. If you were refering to Republic of Georgia diplomat Gueorgui Makharadze who was accused of causing a traffic accident that killed a 16-year-old girl in Washington D.C. on January 4, 1997:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9710/08/diplomat.plea/

"Following public outrage over the death, Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze waived diplomatic immunity for Makharadze so he could face the charges.

http://www.onlineathens.com/1997/122...3diplomat.html

"A former Republic of Georgia diplomat, whose nation waived his immunity, was sentenced Friday to seven to 21 years in prison for the death of a Maryland teen-ager in a car crash."

I admit the case above is completely different in nature, since the diplomat had been DUI. But there WAS outrage and if he had been able to evade charges by maintaining his diplomatic immunity, then we would have had a very similar situation here. What had happened with the GI's is that they were "acquitted of negligent homicide." They were cleared of all charges. There was no possibility for them to be tried in Korea, and Korea did not and will not have any jurisdictional rights over the GI's at any point.

For once, can anybody address the issue involving the final verdict on the GI's? For the sake of discussion, I ask anybody who has any background knowledge in law to please contribute to this discussion. I really don't know much about laws myself, and I really would like to know whether this decision really was fair or not. Would a similar verdict likely to be reached if the incident had happened in the continental US?? I'm really curious to see if all the commotion in Korea is actually uncalled-for. I have a lot to learn here, too.

[TofuNinja]

Asking if a verdict is fair......isn't that a rhetorical question?

I mean if the Korean judicial system is anything like ours....

OJ walks free.... is it fair?

The only thing more shady than our judicial system is California Gov. Gray Davis.

Besides I don't know enough nor care enough about Korean Law to care about the fairness of the verdict.

Now let's focus on what is really important, Bush's claim that we have hard proof that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction... yeah let's go start a war just because someone's daddy couldn't get teh job done........

Yes no wonder us Americans are loved everywhere