http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...pcworld/107309
Taiwanese people....pssh....
In any case, I'm going to taipei next month.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...pcworld/107309
Taiwanese people....pssh....
In any case, I'm going to taipei next month.
Victor
i say **** both microsoft and symantec. now while they make software necessary to my use, i say why the hell are they charging this 52 year old woman 11 million, its not like they need it, and i think microsoft has lost more through XBOX just b/c they've failed in many aspects.In addition to her prison sentence, Chen will have to pay $11 million in additional restitution to Microsoft and Symantec, according to published reports
it just pisses me off when crap like this happens, shes going to jail for 9 years, how the hell is she supposed to pay it?!?!?
i know pirating is a serious crime, but sometimes, i think its pathetic on what these big companies do.
im.with.hang10.here..hell.ive.gotton.many.letters.from.microsoft.myself.saying.i.would.be.prosecuted .if.i.didnt.cease."activities".but.they.gotta.make.an.example.somewhere.
shooting.a.tv...........life
murder..................25-life(or.less)
making.copies...........9.years
i.sense.a.mis-balance.in.the.judicial.system
DISCLAIMER: At any given time my grammar and/or spelling may be incorrect
-all of your mom are belong to me
p4 1.7 ghz
19 in sony flat screen trinitron
40 gb ibm 75gpx
altec lansing ada 885 dolby digtal THX surround speakers
Elsa Gladiac 920
128 mb rd ram
16/40 Sony dvd
16/12/40 NEC cd-rw
It doesn't matter if they *need* the $ or if they've lost more than that on an investment. That's an asinine argument. If you have a pile of a million dollar bills sitting on the ground and somebody steals a dollar, you're entitled to get your dollar back, even if the wind is blowing away ten dollars every minute. Stealing is wrong; how rich or unlucky the victim happens to be is irrelevant. We as a society can not condone stealing. End of story.Originally posted by hang10wannabe
i say **** both microsoft and symantec. now while they make software necessary to my use, i say why the hell are they charging this 52 year old woman 11 million, its not like they need it, and i think microsoft has lost more through XBOX just b/c they've failed in many aspects.
A better criticism for this case would be to argue whether making copies constitutes stealing. THAT is a reasonable point for debate.
OR you could question whether $11 mil is just compensation for the crime. But don't use the "they don't need it, they're rich" whine, that's simply ignorant.
Last edited by Napoleon54; 11-25-2002 at 09:55 PM.
There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal. - Friedrich Hayek
and the plot thickens...Originally posted by Napoleon54
It doesn't matter if they *need* the $ or if they've lost more than that on an investment. That's an asinine argument. If you have a pile of a million dollar bills sitting on the ground and somebody steals a dollar, you're entitled to get your dollar back, even if the wind is blowing away ten dollars every minute. Stealing is wrong; how rich or unlucky the victim happens to be is irrelevant. We as a society can not condone stealing. End of story.
A better criticism for this case would be to argue whether making copies constitutes stealing. THAT is a reasonable point for debate.
OR you could question whether $11 mil is just compensation for the crime. But don't use the "they don't need it, they're rich" whine, that's simply ignorant.
my big gripe about this is that its almost like microsoft is asking for it in the fact that their software is so expensive. i mean 400 bucks for microsoft office... wtf is that?!? if they want stuff like this to stop, a compromise must be made, b/c we all know that file sharing/ pirating/ sharing in general isnt going to stop until they lower prices of their software
END OF STORY
Maybe if more people paid for it, they could lower the prices.Originally posted by hang10wannabe
and the plot thickens...
my big gripe about this is that its almost like microsoft is asking for it in the fact that their software is so expensive. i mean 400 bucks for microsoft office... wtf is that?!? if they want stuff like this to stop, a compromise must be made, b/c we all know that file sharing/ pirating/ sharing in general isnt going to stop until they lower prices of their software
END OF STORY
Lower prices prolly wouldn't do much anyway, IMO. Most people would still pirate Office if was only, say, $50.
By commiting piracy you're breaking laws. They aren't. The courts will side with them every time. If you don't like Microsoft's policies then boycott their products, or try to get the laws changed.
Personally, it would be interesting to add up the value of all the bootlegged software I have. Just off the top of my head I can think of the following Microsoft products: Win98, Win2K, WinXP, Office97, Office2000, OfficeXP, Encarta99, etc. Yeah, I have a bunch of illigit software, but I recognize that I AM BREAKING THE LAW AND COULD BE ARRESTED FOR IT. If that happens I have nobody to blame but myself. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Please get some.
[disclaimer]
Dear Microsoft: the above post is fictional. I don't have any of your software.
[/disclaimer]
There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal. - Friedrich Hayek
So hang10, by your logic its ok for me to steal a ferrari because its costs a lot more than it should? Why should the price justify the act? You don't like paying for it? No ones holding a gun to your head. Run freeware.
This woman made MILLIONS of dollars from stealing software. She had 98 million dollars worth of software just sitting around. And when MS asks for 11 million its "****ed up"? I have a feeling she still gets away with a couple million through her illegal activities.
o.O thats a long time...and...M$ makes enuff money already...its not like they need to make any more...
m00...ph34r t3h n00b
[-=1manclan=-]n00b
People who think that they can take stuff from a company just because that company is doing well should move to a communist society. Same mindset.
It's not so much that the company is doing well, it's that the company is greedy. that's why we spell it M$. So in a way, by steeling from them, were just balancing out the universe.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.
i feel that microsoft as well as many other companies keep thier prices inflated for more profit. with the knowledge that they have cornered the os market, ms can pump up thier prices to whatever they can sell it for. that fact doesnt give anyone the right to steal software from them. they make a product and ask that you compensate them in order to use it. you have other options such as mac os, *nix and many free operating systems. chances are that if it cost $50 for an os that lasts 2 years people will still pirate it. how do i know that? windows xp has been posted in the deals forum a few times at $40 and people on this board still pirate it. i know that operating systems are only a small part of it, but it applies to most of it. for those who pirate, what is a good price for windows xp?
First of all just because it costs $40 once does not mean we all buy it at that time. Let's say I build a nice system from scratch, I'm not going to wait until there's a good deal on it to load win (I wouldn't load win anyways but that is besides the point)Originally posted by Tommy Boomfiger
i feel that microsoft as well as many other companies keep thier prices inflated for more profit. with the knowledge that they have cornered the os market, ms can pump up thier prices to whatever they can sell it for. that fact doesnt give anyone the right to steal software from them. they make a product and ask that you compensate them in order to use it. you have other options such as mac os, *nix and many free operating systems. chances are that if it cost $50 for an os that lasts 2 years people will still pirate it. how do i know that? windows xp has been posted in the deals forum a few times at $40 and people on this board still pirate it. i know that operating systems are only a small part of it, but it applies to most of it. for those who pirate, what is a good price for windows xp?
Second of all when you buy windows it tells MS that it's okay to be greedy and I can't do that. Pirating isn't about the money (always), it's the principals. I think your first two sentences give me all the right in the world to pirate win software. It comes down to this: greed is wrong and by pirating I am righting a wrong thus balancing out the universe.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.
Uh, yeah, all corporations are by definition greedy... what is the purpose of a corporation? To give people jobs? To make society better? To take up office space? No! To make money! That's the only reason Microsoft and all other companies exist today - to make a profit & stay in business & keep the stockholders happy. Do they have a social responsibility? To some extent... if a company is nice & profitable they are expected to give back to the community, which Bill Gates is well know for. But the primary goal is not to make people happy, or to give software away, or to release trade secrets... it's to make a profit.Originally posted by InfiniteNothing
It's not so much that the company is doing well, it's that the company is greedy. that's why we spell it M$. So in a way, by steeling from them, were just balancing out the universe.
If they can maximize profits by lowering the price & increasing sales volume, then it makes sense to lower thr price. If they are selling a product that will sell a huge volume at the current price, why drop it? If it's out of your price range
Seriously? Because GM is pumping up the prices of their cars to keep profits up, too... are you going to steal a car? The real estate in Silicon Vally is crazy expensive compared to land in Tulsa, OK... that's pure greed. Gonna steal some land because you think someone OWES you something you can't afford?Originally posted by InfiniteNothing
Pirating isn't about the money (always), it's the principals. I think your first two sentences give me all the right in the world to pirate win software. It comes down to this: greed is wrong and by pirating I am righting a wrong thus balancing out the universe.
Why does it not suprise me that hang10wannabe is taking this position. Its not ok to steal anything. Its against the law whether you feel justified or not. You wanna know why most people dont like you or think your not credible? Its stupid ASSinine opinions like this that you spout on a regular basis.
Im not above using pirated software but if I get caught I am not gonna whine about corporate america wanting retribution.
Ape
Last edited by ironape; 11-26-2002 at 06:39 AM.
Screw Spelin and Gramur... Im a Damn Dirty Ape!!
Originally posted by joe52985
shooting.a.tv...........life
murder..................25-life(or.less)
making.copies...........9.years
i.sense.a.mis-balance.in.the.judicial.system
shooting a TV?
____________________
IF A FAT GIRL FALLS IN THE WOODS
DO THE TREES LAUGH?
So you won't complain if if a band of homeless people loots your house? They're just doing their part in "balancing out the universe".Originally posted by InfiniteNothing
It's not so much that the company is doing well, it's that the company is greedy. that's why we spell it M$. So in a way, by steeling from them, were just balancing out the universe.
There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal. - Friedrich Hayek
That's capitalism. The reason that MS makes operating systems at all is in order to make a profit. Without capitalism there'd be no Windows for you to pirate in the first place. As Leon very appropriately pointed out, if you don't like it then move to a Communist society.Originally posted by InfiniteNothing
It comes down to this: greed is wrong and by pirating I am righting a wrong thus balancing out the universe.
Greed is wrong, eh? It could be said that pirating is the epitome of greed. You're taking something from somebody else, something that they developed. You're stealing. If that's not greed, then I don't know what is.
There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal. - Friedrich Hayek
quick.question..did.the.woman.HAVE.98.million.in.software.or.had.she.sold.98.million.in.software..is .just.having.the.copies.illegal?
Pirating.IS.wrong,.but.i.cant.see.to.the.extent.of.the.law.they.prosecute.with..this.woman.was.wayyy y.overboard.with.software.so.she.deserves.whats.comin.to.her.in.monetary.penalties.but.as.for.9.year s?.bull,.i.would.say.that3-4.years.would.be.good.but.i.am.no.lawyer
DISCLAIMER: At any given time my grammar and/or spelling may be incorrect
-all of your mom are belong to me
p4 1.7 ghz
19 in sony flat screen trinitron
40 gb ibm 75gpx
altec lansing ada 885 dolby digtal THX surround speakers
Elsa Gladiac 920
128 mb rd ram
16/40 Sony dvd
16/12/40 NEC cd-rw
while this is basically outside the issue of whether piracy is "justified" or not, i think tommy was hitting on a good point above.
basically, microsoft has a monopoly in the OS market (i could argue why this is true, but humor me and save me some typing). they have leveraged this monopoly to create near-monopolies in the office suite and browser markets.
now, since they are in a monopoly position, they can sell their products for more than the economically optimal price, extracting monopoly rents from each sale. this is negative for the economy as a whole, because consumers (and many of these consumers are OTHER COMPANIES who are also trying to be profitable) are paying too much for the M$ products.
of course, we have laws against such behavior in the US. but since M$ paid off the Bush campaign and a lot of other politicians, we aren't going to see any serious remedies placed against them
Better her than me.. that's all I gotta say.
Yeah, we all know everyone paid for their copy of Winzip because it's only $20.Originally posted by hang10wannabe
and the plot thickens...
my big gripe about this is that its almost like microsoft is asking for it in the fact that their software is so expensive. i mean 400 bucks for microsoft office... wtf is that?!? if they want stuff like this to stop, a compromise must be made, b/c we all know that file sharing/ pirating/ sharing in general isnt going to stop until they lower prices of their software
END OF STORY
This is a lame argument. MS Works is only $100 and comes with Word 2000.
A better argument is that you hate MS and don't have any moral problems with stealing thier software. That's the argument I don't use when I buy and don't steal their software.
YVAN EHT NIOJ
i don't know about you, but i'm still evaluating my copy of WinZip, trying to see if it does everything i need it to doOriginally posted by i6s1
Yeah, we all know everyone paid for their copy of Winzip because it's only $20.
YOU TOO!??!?! I've been "evaluating" it since 95... pkzip and unzip rock!!!!Originally posted by whitak24
i don't know about you, but i'm still evaluating my copy of WinZip, trying to see if it does everything i need it to do
i just to clarify something here. it's NOT illegal to have a monopoly. what IS illegal is taking steps to create, maintain, or force one to exists where it would otherwise not be. in my business, we have a virtual lock on the business. however, because we aren't unfairly forcing out competitors out of the market, the gvt. doesn't hassle us.
having said that, i'm NOT going to say whether or not MS has unfairly monopolized the market. i'm not a techie and don't have as much background info as most of you. just wanted to drive up my post count, errrr, point something out.
70% of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Bob Sanders
ok, i haven't studied anti-trust policy in a good four years, so my memory is a little rusty.Originally posted by cheapbast@rd
i just to clarify something here. it's NOT illegal to have a monopoly. what IS illegal is taking steps to create, maintain, or force one to exists where it would otherwise not be. in my business, we have a virtual lock on the business. however, because we aren't unfairly forcing out competitors out of the market, the gvt. doesn't hassle us.
having said that, i'm NOT going to say whether or not MS has unfairly monopolized the market. i'm not a techie and don't have as much background info as most of you. just wanted to drive up my post count, errrr, point something out.
however, if i recall, someone (in theory) could bring a suit against your company for being a monopoly, particularly if they are a competitor trying to start a competing service.
basically, my understanding was that unless a company was in an industry that has natural monopolies (electric, gas, etc, although that is changing), they were risking being broken up by the courts if they had a monopoly position.
/me looks around for Merlin, who knows about all the stuff
The line between monopolistics actiosn and good business tactics is a fine line. I would hesitate to say that MS is a monopoly because there is nothing stopping you from using Netscape or a non-msn isp. If they forced those things on you then it would be illegal. Personally, I use IE and I'd hate to have to pay for it seperately when I buy the OS.
Whoah, falacious arguments flying around. Quit misstating my case everyone. I say that it is okay to pirate from M$. Who said anything about bumbs steeling or GM. GM is not greedy. Steeling is wrong and i think the differenece is obvious.
The argument that capitolism is greedy unsupported. Prove it. I think capitolism is about competition not greed.
pirating is not always greed. Some times its a political statement, a stance for what is right.
I hate qwerty Keyboads.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals.
i will definitely give you that.Originally posted by Cantacuzene
The line between monopolistics actiosn and good business tactics is a fine line. I would hesitate to say that MS is a monopoly because there is nothing stopping you from using Netscape or a non-msn isp. If they forced those things on you then it would be illegal. Personally, I use IE and I'd hate to have to pay for it seperately when I buy the OS.
if it weren't a fine line, then we wouldn't have to have to many court cases about it
however, i think that M$ falls toward the monopoly side because they have leveraged their OS monopoly to make their programs the standard in other areas.
for instance, when you are in business, you have little choice but to use Word because that's the standard, and people want to be able to share documents from company to company, etc.
but it's definitely a debatable point (and since i'm at work, i can't really spend too much time debating it, because i have stuff to do)
yea i think their against usOriginally posted by InfiniteNothing
Whoah, falacious arguments flying around. Quit misstating my case everyone. I say that it is okay to pirate from M$. Who said anything about bumbs steeling or GM. GM is not greedy. Steeling is wrong and i think the differenece is obvious.
The argument that capitolism is greedy unsupported. Prove it. I think capitolism is about competition not greed.
pirating is not always greed. Some times its a political statement, a stance for what is right.
I hate qwerty Keyboads.
now people people, lets not start personally attacking people, aka APE
Why does it not suprise me that hang10wannabe is taking this position. Its not ok to steal anything. Its against the law whether you feel justified or not. You wanna know why most people dont like you or think your not credible? Its stupid ASSinine opinions like this that you spout on a regular basis.keep sheet like this to urself and stay on argument
now while stealing is wrong, i admit that, i would in fact buy a copy of win xp or most software if it werent so high priced, and $50 in the deals section is normally after mail in rebates or price matching and most of the time is not able to be accomplished. now i was upset at the fact that while she "had" all these millions of dollars "worth" of software, she did not necessarily have a swiss bank account piling up with money guys. and i think 9 years in prison was a good enough sentence, its the 11 million in money that got me upset. i mean, seriously, shes freaking old enough to be some of our mothers, cut her some slack. its not like shes going to hit it big when she gets out, and judging by some of your guys responses about "savekaryn.com", she can expect no help on the intarweb. so wtf is she gonna do to get out of debt, thats pretty sheety way to live the rest of your life.
and napolean, getting a little harsh there?
Actually, I got in on the $40 WinXP Pro deal and it took me like 10 minutes to do it. It also came with free bubble gum, bobblehead, and a WinXP baseball. Can't beat that deal.Originally posted by hang10wannabe
now while stealing is wrong, i admit that, i would in fact buy a copy of win xp or most software if it werent so high priced, and $50 in the deals section is normally after mail in rebates or price matching and most of the time is not able to be accomplished.
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