How many of you believe video games are the cause of violence?

**gear02** · 12-09-2002, 06:33 AM

This might belong in the games section, but since only gamers venture over in that dark corner, the responses would be very biased.

From the AP via avault:

The Honduran Congress last week voted to ban the sale and distribution of violent video games as part of its effort to halt growing crime and lawlessness. The country's lawmakers voted unanimously in favor of the new legislation. The president was expected to sign it into law. The proposal includes the prohibition of several games such as Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil. The lawmakers also banned the sale of any toy that resembles a gun or knife. The new legislation would take effect in June 2003 - giving business officials six months to clear their shelves of the newly banned toys. President Ricardo Maduro was elected a year ago on the promise to adopt a New York City zero-tolerance against crime.

Hmm...so it must be video games that cause violent crime, not drugs/alcohol/poverty/gangs/anything else.

Another quote, this time from Indianapolis:

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Coin-operated video games in which people are decapitated, dismembered, mutilated or maimed will soon be off-limits to children in Indianapolis.

Mayor Bart Peterson signed a video-game-violence law Monday, saying it was an opportunity for the city to put its foot down on what he called a burgeoning culture of violence.

The law requires coin-operated games featuring graphic violence or strong sexual content to have warning labels and be kept at least 10 feet from nonviolent game machines. They must also be separated by a curtain or wall so minors cannot view them. The law bars people under age 18 from such games unless accompanied by a parent or guardian.

Peterson called the law — believed to be the first of its kind in a major U.S. city — a necessary first step.

''The importance of it is that it's an effort to begin to attack the culture of violence that I believe surrounds our young people these days virtually from the day they're born,'' the mayor said.

Read the rest of the article here

What do you think?

**nickel** · 12-09-2002, 06:36 AM

i think they can contribute, but so can a lot of other things.
they try to use video games as the reason for violence too many times.

**nickel** · 12-09-2002, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Yossarian

being a kid who plays said games, i don't think they do

then how do you explain the time you showed up at my house with that M-16?

**bachviet** · 12-09-2002, 06:52 AM

It might contribute but it's up to the parents to educate the kids about the games!

**nickel** · 12-09-2002, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Yossarian:

was going hunting

hunting for humans?

**mcs328** · 12-09-2002, 07:09 AM

I say they "do" cause violence. Not 100% but I'm inclined to say it's becoming a factor...at least fot the stupid "mature" ppl and to some extent the lil pre-adolescent ones.

I draw the parallel with the stupid ppl who attempt "Jackass"-like stunts influenced by the movie or who lay in the middle of the roadway (was that from Varisity Blues?) I almost get no sympathy from these ppl if they should "know" better. The easily influenced ones I hope they know better after the fact.

**blueindian** · 12-09-2002, 07:13 AM

me thinks so.

some quote:

Look, if we were all influenced by Pac-Man as kids, then right now we'd be seeing ghosts, running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to electronic music.

who among us has been to a rave?

**gear02** · 12-09-2002, 07:58 AM

How about violent movies or TV shows? Or explitive-laded music? Aren't those more influential? I mean more people are trying to act out Jackass stunts than people running around with swords and armor.

**WhiskeyPapa** · 12-09-2002, 08:07 AM

I'd say they contribute. Probably not to the degree some activists would have you believe, but they do have an influence.

I read a story about some school shooter several years ago. The author said that a "typical" shooter will basically unload his clip into a single victim, pretty much shooting until the body stopped moving. However, this teenage shooter walked through the school, shooting once at each target, a'la Wolfenstein/Doom/Quake. He said his "style" was heavily influenced by video games. The author said the victims were lucky, because most of them were simply wounded...

No violent video games in my house. My teenage kids have to be satisfied with non-violent stuff to numb their minds.

**GraingerGuy** · 12-09-2002, 08:13 AM

I think I'm going to have to agree with kb0wwp. It's definately a factor to some of the violence that is happening today.

**faither** · 12-09-2002, 09:26 AM

Don't blame the games. Blame absent, lazy or otherwise non-involved parents as the reason. That being said, there certainly is a desensizing factor that the violent games have that could have an effect on kids. Bottom line, though, is parental involvement.

**hapoo** · 12-09-2002, 09:27 AM

I agree with all the posts above me. It does contribute.

Basically i think if your going to snap, your going to snap either way. Violence in any form will just help push you over the edge. Now you may not go blowing up cop cars or anything like GTA3. But I don't think its right to think it has no negative influence on a person, especially a younger mind. And the more games look real the more of an effect its going to have, your no longer shooting a flat red box that is supposed to be your "enemy", what you see is a realistic representation.

**Hiro** · 12-09-2002, 09:32 AM

You know, the ratio's are astounding. For the 10 or so violent crimes committed by kids, it was always blamed on video games. Now, let's take a look at this. There are HOW MANY KIDS in the WORLD that play these same games, yet they turn out fine and are able to control themselves.

Now, let's look at where these kids got the guns. Their grandfather's gun rack maybe? hmm...who else is maybe supporting their violent tendencies by taking them hunting so they can learn how to be a "real man".

**Jeffbx** · 12-09-2002, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by kb0wwp
I read a story about some school shooter several years ago. The author said that a "typical" shooter will basically unload his clip into a single victim, pretty much shooting until the body stopped moving. However, this teenage shooter walked through the school, shooting once at each target, a'la Wolfenstein/Doom/Quake. He said his "style" was heavily influenced by video games. The author said the victims were lucky, because most of them were simply wounded...

Doesn't quite match up, tho... I would think it's the opposite. In real life, you can drop a person with a single shot. I.e., whether it's in the head or it just took off your baby toe, that gunshot wound (and getting the heck away from the shooter) is going to be your #1 concern. In Doom/Quake/UT etc. a single shot usually doesn't even concern you as a player, and it takes an entire (or several) clips to drop another player.

This is just an observation, however.

In response to the original post - I think the approach they're taking in Indy makes a heckuva lot more sense than in Honduras. Many games are NOT intended for kids under 18 - just like R rated movies. But an outright ban sure isn't going to make any difference in violent crime!

I don't think that games cause violence any more than violent movies, TV news or road rage. They can all trigger violence in an otherwise unstable person, but they're not going to create violence where none existed before.

**TofuNinja** · 12-09-2002, 10:26 AM

Videos games don't cause violence, people do. I never heard a
headline on the news stating that an unidentifired video game killed seven people.

If parents actually do their jobs we wouldn't have all these problems. Parents pay attention to your kids, play these games with them and explain why this behavior is wrong and what not. It is simple. Parents need to explain to their kids that there is a fine line of reality between these games and real life. You don't go jacking cars and running over people or shooting them up with a shotgun or something. Parents need to take the time and actually be thre for their kids.

Besides I am sure if you ask a gang member who gave him the idea to to a drive by he wouldn't say it was a video game.

**GraingerGuy** · 12-09-2002, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by TofuNinja
Videos games don't cause violence, people do. I never heard a
headline on the news stating that an unidentifired video game killed seven people.

If parents actually do their jobs we wouldn't have all these problems. Parents pay attention to your kids, play these games with them and explain why this behavior is wrong and what not. It is simple. Parents need to explain to their kids that there is a fine line of reality between these games and real life. You don't go jacking cars and running over people or shooting them up with a shotgun or something. Parents need to take the time and actually be thre for their kids.

Besides I am sure if you ask a gang member who gave him the idea to to a drive by he wouldn't say it was a video game.

Even if parents did do their job you don't think video games would influence the kid in some way, shape or form?

To be quite honest, even if the parents explain the difference between real life and imaginary, the kids would have at least mildly more violent tendencies.

**TofuNinja** · 12-09-2002, 10:46 AM

THat's some new age hooey.

When are we going to stop blaming other things for the faults of human stupidity? I am sure Marilyne Manson has something to do with Violence and rape and all that stuff as well as violent movies, Harry Potter and Bill Clinton....WWE?

Please. Why don't we look atour education system... why don't we get better teachers in the classroom. Why don't we get parents to do their jobs and accept responisibility.

To paraphrase a movie I forgot the name of, In this country you need to get a liscence to own a dog, but anyone can be a parent.

There are REAL issues here and something much deeper than video games. People need to stop trying to play the blame Game and own up to their responsibilities.

WHy is it that in Japan kids watch violent cartoons and there are hardly any deaths by handguns there (true they have sex with tons of rubber people but still). ANd here in America (where the TV acts as a baby sitter) a three year old watches Beavis and Butthead and burns his house down..... no it is not the TV it was the parents, if they were there with their kid and explained fact and fiction and seriously gave that kid the love and attention they needed then his house wouldn't have burned down.

Parents, teachers, pastors etc, theycan all explain to kids that when you feel violent maybe you should play those games to relieve stress but remember that the game is not real it is fantasy and it is not ok to do what you do in that fantasy world in the real world.

True these game glorify guns and what not... but heck when I grow up so did GI Joe and all the action movies i watch.. it is just a new day with a new thing to try to blame for the problems we are too scared to fix

**molecularfire** · 12-09-2002, 11:58 AM

I don't think that violence (video games, TV, life, etc...) can be blamed solely on one thing. Yes, we need better parents. Heck, I've been a proponent of putting in people's food so that they can't have kids until they've gone through a training program first for a long time. We need better teachers (I do NOT blame teachers for this btw...)That being said, our society is way to tolerant of violence. There is a lot of violence on TV. There is a lot of violence in video games. I don't think that playing starcraft is going to make you grab your stim pack and nukes and go looking for zerglings, but over time... seeing violence all the time does desensitize us to it. Society should be so intolerant to violence that games/movies with violence should not even be tolerated. People should get into an uproar when they come out and everybody should be so shocked that someone would do something that callous that nobody except a couple of very wierd freaks would buy any of that garbage.

To say that the violence in video games, movies, etc... has nothing to do with violence in society, is just as wrong IMO as blaming them completely for it.

**Grimm** · 12-09-2002, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by faither
Don't blame the games. Blame absent, lazy or otherwise non-involved parents as the reason. That being said, there certainly is a desensizing factor that the violent games have that could have an effect on kids. Bottom line, though, is parental involvement.

Exactly what I wanted to say... he probably said it better.

It's untreated mental illness. An inability to tell the difference betwen right and wrong that is the probelm. These values are supposed to be taught and reinforced daily by the parents or guardians of these children. TV is a lot more influential, yet we allow a constant stream of murders and violence there. Why? Because we know that watching TV doesn't make people go out and kill each other.

Look at some under developed nations. They have armed kids going out and shooting at people every day. These kids never watched TV or played a video game. Their parents taught them to do it.

Quit finding excuses people, get off your butts and pay attention to the kids you weren't mature enough to have any way.

**Memo** · 12-09-2002, 12:32 PM

Video games are not the cause of violence. They might give certain kids ideas on HOW to act out their VIOLENT NATURE, but they don't create the violence. Violence has been around forever, people just get their "inspiration" from different places. The video game is not going to change the person. If the kids get any crazy ideas, that's what PARENTS ARE FOR. People can easily read the bible and get inspiration for violence (Clockwork Orange?). As far as blaming kids idiotic stunts for shows like Jackass. That is ridiculous. The people on jackass are kids too. Where do they get the ideas from? They MADE the damn show. Kids have always done stupid **** and will continue to do so and stupid parents will continue to look for scapegoats to bypass good parenting.

**mcs328** · 12-09-2002, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by gear02
How about violent movies or TV shows? Or explitive-laded music? Aren't those more influential? I mean more people are trying to act out Jackass stunts than people running around with swords and armor.

LIGHTNING BOLT!!! LIGHTNING BOLT!!! (someone please dig this thread out and see how many actually DO run around with swords and armor)

In West Virginia, a professor was murdered by her daughter and her friends by a sword...not necessarily video game related influenced but it was fantasy GAME related I believe. So I believe the method was heavily influenced in this case.

I agree that if someone is going to snap then there are going to snap. So I agree that video games may not be the sole cause of violence I think the method plays a bigger role.

**LegendKiller** · 12-09-2002, 01:02 PM

I graduated from the Univ of Mn 2 years ago with a bs in psychology. For my senior paper, we had to perform a hypothetical experiment. I decided to do mine on video games and violence. I went through all of the research of previous experiments, and came up with one fact.

Video games do not cause the violence per se, but there are other factors that do.

One of the more interesting things I read was that kids who had previous encounters with the law, often became more violent after playing video games. However, if there were kids who had no previous encounters that played games, they would be fine after an initial bout of "manifest agression", which was attributed to them being riled up, much the same with anything that gets combative tendancies going (even baseball does that).

So, looking further, you can see that kids who were in juvie often had more agressive tendancies, and those were caused by two factors. First, you can attribute the majority to a broken childhood. Many of these types of kids have broken or abusive families and other factors in this year. Second, many of these people suffer from depression or other mental illnesses that were later found (bipolar, ADDHD, other abnormal tendancies).

So, therefore, what you are getting is chemically unbalanced people acting out agression resulting from video games. Thus, we get Columbine and other incidents where kids, who were already unbalanced, can snap because of a game.

The question comes down to...how many are affected. Personally, I think its a small sliver of the population that are affected by these games, and they should have limited access to them. Thus, it becomes a domain of the parents. Parents are not willing to take responsibility for their kids action. I see it all of the time in Miami here, we have 12 year old girls running around in clothes that should be on a prostitute, not a 12 year old. Its like parents expect others to take care of their kids.

Parents want the government to make sure their kids do not get access to these games. Well, why the heck are you a parent then? If you can't raise em, dont have em.

So, basically my conclusion was that violent video games are not the primary reason behind violence manifested by children. It is an underlying problem that needs to be identified by parents, fixed by parents, and controlled by parents.

LK

**hang10wannabe** · 12-09-2002, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by mcs328

LIGHTNING BOLT!!! LIGHTNING BOLT!!! (someone please dig this thread out and see how many actually DO run around with swords and armor)

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showth...lightning+bolt

well, i dunno about you but i know that violent video games relieve frustration, such a game would be boxing games or shooting games. you go in all flustered and po-ed and take ur frustration out on a computer defined person or thing. if anything it helps reduce the problem in my opinion. and if u want to keep your kids from playing these violent games, just have them play DDR =D

**gear02** · 12-09-2002, 01:44 PM

That's very interesting LegendKiller. Thanks!

My big problem is that when there's a violence problem, everyone immediately jumps to the conclusion that it's the video games. Then some congressman comes and tries to make laws banning/limiting them. The same goes when one game comes out that's very violent (GTA) and the media starts portraying the entire industry and gamers as violence maniacs.

It's an unjust biased against games. Why not go after the movies or the music? Because the game industry doesn't have as much clout and the consumers of games are generally kids or those without much power.

**Nija** · 12-09-2002, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by LegendKiller
*snipped for length reasons*

So, basically my conclusion was that violent video games are not the primary reason behind violence manifested by children. It is an underlying problem that needs to be identified by parents, fixed by parents, and controlled by parents.

LK

that's how I feel. 'Cept he has the knowledge to back it up

**Blitz** · 12-09-2002, 02:27 PM

I believe, working with the great fellow gamers in the great "Game Section" of Got|Apex?, that I can conclude, games do not create the violence we see today.

I think it was posted in the games forum about AA(Americas Army) teaching children how to fire guns. Now any experienced persons whom have fired any type of gun before can clearly state, AA does not teach you how to fire a gun. It is not the gun that kills, but the person pulling the trigger.

If parents did do their job, explaining to children what is real, and what is make believe, violence would decrease rapidly in the case made above. It is not the gun, nor games, but the distorted mind which compells children of such a young age to attempt these radical acts. Depresion, drugs, drinking, abuse, are most of the common reasons why teens feel so obligated to attempt suicide or release tension upon others, and YES! I do believe games can effect people at this mental state to attempt such cowardly acts, but games (nor music) is not the true source of the problem.

my 2 cents

....and out of every hour of every day I play video games in all of the years thus far, I have not once been compelled to commit suicide or attempt a killing spree of anysort...besides when I go paintballing....

peace,
Blitz
Got|Apex? Games Section, visit it today! (its that tab on top that says games people! GAMES!)

edit: sweet legengkiller! could you e-mail me your paper....i wana save that

**Memo** · 12-09-2002, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by hang10wannabe

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showth...lightning+bolt

well, i dunno about you but i know that violent video games relieve frustration, such a game would be boxing games or shooting games. you go in all flustered and po-ed and take ur frustration out on a computer defined person or thing. if anything it helps reduce the problem in my opinion. and if u want to keep your kids from playing these violent games, just have them play DDR =D

Well it's only a form of stress relief if you win. If I lose, THEN maybe I can see the video game making me violent.

**Nanotech9** · 12-09-2002, 06:04 PM

let me tell you something...

those kids that are "becoming violent" because of video games (i laugh) are gonna become violent anyway. And you cant prove me wrong with a poll, because once you have a violent kid thats played a video game, you cant take the same kid back in time, remove the video games, and then prove we wont become violent.

If only we had a time machine....

**molecularfire** · 12-09-2002, 06:47 PM

No, but you can take a group with violent tendencies and a group without violent tendencies, split them into two subgroups each and expose one subgroup from each original group to video games and the other subgroups to no video games and then figure out which of them will be more likely to show agression (via a survey, some sort of test, or heck, just put them into a room with each other and a bunch of toothpicks and count the number of people who walk out after an hour). Unfortunately, darn government won't let me experiment on people.

**Speedfreak** · 12-09-2002, 07:19 PM

I think you have to have something wrong in the first place (adult or kid) to actually act on some violent event you witnesed in a game. Unless these people know how to turn off their conscience, I don't think there is a big contribution for violence from video games.

The only thing that is possible is competition. There have been many fights and some murder at LANs in the county I live in. I think it is more the trash talk on the people who lose that causes acts of violence. Most have these have been gang related anyway. They sure as hell don't need video games for them to get violent.

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