the long awaited details on why i quit

[ribitch]

www.micon.com - thats where i used to work. I was hired to be in their sales department. The company basically refurbishes and resells laptops. They do this primarily at the super computer sales (http://www.supercomputersale.com/)

anyways, I start working there and they are explaining there policies to me. First I am told they charge a 3% terminal fee for credit card purchases at the shows. This is used to offset the 1.5-3% fee credit card companies charge when you use your charge card. They go on to explain that we cannot tell the customer that reasoning because its illegal.

Then i was told that there are details about a computer that you tell a customer, anything that would cause them to change their minds, you dont tell them (i.e. no battery with laptop, no manuals, no original cd's or EULA's, and other things of this nature)

Then while at my first and only show, I see these people who are wanting to buy a computer, but they can only afford to spend 200-300 dollars MAX. This type of investment was a big investment for them. They dont realize the system they are buying is crap and they could get a whole lot more from dell or even bestbuy for a few bucks more.

The biggest kicker for me was the fact that all the software that was installed was mostly, if not all, pirated. Each system came with Windows 98, Me, or 2000, a DVD program, and Easy CD Creator. It didnt matter if the hardware supported DVD or CD burning, they all were cloned disks and shipped with it.

Some systems even came with the works suite, which also included Word.


I couldnt be a part of that crap, so quit on the 5th day of work.

That was on 12-22-02, today (1-10-03) i was hired at CompUSA, I will use that as a source of income until i can find a real job. Plus i will get some great deals on xbox games using that MS reseller program that allows you to get halo and stuff for like $10 bucks.

my big dilema is should i turn them in or not. Its one thing if you use 2 copies of windows at home, but when you are basing a business off selling pirated versions of the OS, its a whole different ballpark. What would you do?

[zenbooty]

Welcome to the wonderful world of sales! No place for us honest tech geeks, I'm afraid. You sound like you have a soul, so this job area is probably not for you.

Don't burn bridges. Every company that specializes in used equipment does this. Its not worth the bother blowing the whistle, you stand to gain nothing from it, and will only make enemies.

[ribitch]

i just hate the fact they are ripping these people off like no other. to see a guy and his wife spend hours looking at a 300 laptop trying to make sure they were doing the right thing is really hard to watch.

these people looked like they have worked their asses off to barely get by in life. i felt very very bad for them. It really bothers me when i see that.

I have worked sales before, but that was for apple systems. it wasnt an all sales job either. its much easier when the equipment is new and has more value to it.

[Butch]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Welcome to the wonderful world of sales! No place for us honest tech geeks, I'm afraid. You sound like you have a soul, so this job area is probably not for you.

Don't burn bridges. Every company that specializes in used equipment does this. Its not worth the bother blowing the whistle, you stand to gain nothing from it, and will only make enemies.

Not to sound the cliche alarm . . . but if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

What bridges could he burn? These people are morally repulsive. Will he be looking to them for another job . . . I should hope not.

I say you turn them in.

[mcs328]

Can you do it anonymously? I would.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by mcs328
Can you do it anonymously? I would.

yep, but i would give my name. I would be willing to testify against them if needed. Piracy like this just throws up the price of the software to us as end users.

[blueindian]

i would sooooo turn them in, anonomyously or not. they are ripping real people off, and that's lame. they need to be stopped.

i agree, what bridges? you appear to be good, honest person. therefore i would assume that you would:

a. not use them for a reference
b. not work for them again, or any other business that any of them start

you have nothing to loose, and piece of mind to gain.

[Grimm]

Why should you not turn them in?

Burn a bridge with a company you want nothing to do with? Sounds good to me.

Do you owe them something? They asked you to do something that was wrong. And therefore put you at legal risk. You owe them nothing.

Do you think that it is ok for them to steal from their customers? A 3% extra charge is wrong, they are overcharging people from their advertised price.

Why should you turn them in?

It's the honest thing to do.

You can sleep better, if it wasn't bothering you, you wouldn't have posted here.

How would you feel if your mom bought a laptop from these people?


It's your responsability do do something about it because you are one of the few who can.

[zenbooty]

Business is ugly. Sales is even uglier. And you NEVER know who you may be dealing with in the future, unless you completely change your line of work. Folow your principles, and leave the job. But there's always going to be someone without those principles ready to step in where you left off. Blowing the whistle doesn't have nearly the impact on a company you think it would, unless worker's or customer's physical safety is an issue.

Like I said above, this kind of thing goes on all the time. Its part of business, has always been part of business, and its not going to change anytime soon. Its always been the customer's responsibility to protect himself by being informed. The rubes get fleeced, the sharks swim on. Like I said, ugly, but that's simply the model upon which capitalism works.

[gear02]

I say you should turn them in. I've had a relative buy a computer from such stores and they absolutely make anyone who is in the computer related business look like a crook. These kinds of stores, which pricewatch is filled with, hurts the computer industry and gives it a whole car dealership feel. I mean, when you drive by a small computer store, don't you immediately think "hmm...there's a shady and crooked computer store?"

[Cubsfan]

Originally posted by ribitch


yep, but i would give my name. I would be willing to testify against them if needed. Piracy like this just throws up the price of the software to us as end users.

Don't hesitate, just go do it. The only thing to decide is who do you tell. The local police probably don't care too much really (although it won't hurt to tell them).
Try http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/default.asp for starters.

As far as them ripping people off goes, if they're just selling at shows, there's probably not much you can do about it. The BBB or anything like that doesn't really cover it. Also, tell Mastercard and Visa about the credit card thing.

There's only one consideration that you might want to think about. You DID knowingly sell this stuff. Might you be liable for anything? I have no idea.

Good job being moral about this. Keep it up. Pay no attention to zenbooty. People like him are why these crooks find life so easy. The rest of us need to make it not so easy. Looks like the vast majority of people here would take the high road. I am impressed with the people here!

[Hunny]

Ribitch if you feel that strongly about it, and you're willing to do what it takes to go further, then I say go with your gutt instincts and do what you can....if everyone stood silent when things weren't "right", then where would we all be...sometimes someone has to take a stand for whats right and what he believes in...and you bet, you will benefit from it...Peace of Mind...the satisfaction that you at least tried to make things right...even if it goes nowhere ...
As far as what was stated..

Like I said above, this kind of thing goes on all the time. Its part of business, has always been part of business, and its not going to change anytime soon.

...THATis exactly why ribitch should say something...of course it goes on all the time because there aren't enough "ribitch's" in the world... not enough of those with a conscience anyhow...
I probably would fit in that couples category..I know didly squat about computers/components/and all that hardware bull****...leaving me to believe I surely wouldn't want zen selling me one

[zenbooty]

This is why I don't sell. I've seen enough sales to know that this type of behavior permeates the business. Its a losing battle trying to fight it, especially from the inside. And remember, no one here giving you advice will have to deal with any complications or consequences of YOUR actions. You alone have that burden. The "moral" activist choice is always the best one when you're not the one who has to act.

[Hunny]

Originally posted by zenbooty
This is why I don't sell. I've seen enough sales to know that this type of behavior permeates the business. Its a losing battle trying to fight it, especially from the inside. And remember, no one here giving you advice will have to deal with any complications or consequences of YOUR actions. You alone have that burden. The "moral" activist choice is always the best one when you're not the one who has to act.

You're right...advice is all to readily given and not taken...I rarely take my own advice in some matters
..He was willing to go the extra step

Originally posted by ribitch....yep, but i would give my name. I would be willing to testify against them if needed. Piracy like this just throws up the price of the software to us as end users.

When you feel that strongly about something...sometimes you need that extra boost from others..and that would be us...what he does is up to him...he sounds like a person who would think it through before jumping in with both feet...

[gear02]

at least post stuff on like resellerratings.com or something...

[revil]

I wouldn't tattle. People usually don't like tattlers. Well, at least maybe when you tattle to the govt. Tell Microsoft and anybody else they are pirating software from that they are doing this. from what I understand, they really dislike it when sellers do this.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Cubsfan


Don't hesitate, just go do it. The only thing to decide is who do you tell. The local police probably don't care too much really (although it won't hurt to tell them).
Try http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/default.asp for starters.

As far as them ripping people off goes, if they're just selling at shows, there's probably not much you can do about it. The BBB or anything like that doesn't really cover it. Also, tell Mastercard and Visa about the credit card thing.

There's only one consideration that you might want to think about. You DID knowingly sell this stuff. Might you be liable for anything? I have no idea.

Good job being moral about this. Keep it up. Pay no attention to zenbooty. People like him are why these crooks find life so easy. The rest of us need to make it not so easy. Looks like the vast majority of people here would take the high road. I am impressed with the people here!

all i have to say is thanks for the link. I included my name, so MS will probably contact me on the matter. I told my story and submitted it.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by ribitch



all i have to say is thanks for the link. I included my name, so MS will probably contact me on the matter. I told my story and submitted it.

Good man!


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

-Edmund Burke 1729-1797

[TERRIBLETOM]

I applaud you on your morals, the worst thing is that there whole policy is based on deception and the ones that are suffering are people like you and I, someday a family member or good friend could get stuck with one of there deals. I do believe there is a government agency that investigates pirated software.

[Nanotech9]

good idea but BAD idea...


if you've even sold one system with the pirated software on it, the company you quit may try to get you in trouble by saying you were "in on it". You obviously knew that the stuff was pirated, and you might be named as an accessory to the crime of some sort.

BE CAREFULL.

i do agree that its wrong and that you should nail them, but i would've done it anon.

[CarolinaGal]

You might also consider seaking to a State Attorney general's rep, especially the Consumer Fraud office. They are usually approachable and can give you guidance on your next actions. You are effectively "whistle-blowing". Be careful not to involve your new job. The AG office can also help you with immunity in lieu of inside info that aids their investigation, and ask the AG office to recommend an attorney, if it gets down to that.

Good luck - I admire your strength

[eSDee]

$300 isn't bad for a computer, if it has Word on it. A lot of people want to use it only for word processing for school or whatnot. That's not a bad price for a word processor, even if it is a piece of crap.

Back to the subject of reporting it, I would.

[i6s1]

I gotta say, I don't think that what they're doing is that bad. Almost every laptop that ships has an MS OS on it, buisiness laptops will usually have Office. Most consumer notebooks come with works. DVD/CDRW software is useless without an appropriate drive, and if they do add a drive later then it would have come with software also.

I'm sure the licences for this software have been long since lost. OEM software cannot be transfered off the machine, so as far as I'm concerned, they should be able to load an os on there. It should be "time appropriate", ie laptops sold from 95-97 should have win95, buiseness laptops should have NT/2000.

As for sales practices, buyer beware. Not suggesting that they buy from a competitor is good buisenes practice.

[TERRIBLETOM]

I'm not sure that price was an issue in this case, ribitch was not comfortable in there business practises and believed that it was excessive on there part. I don't blame him for wanting to leave. If everyone applied this type of practice to there business how would you feel about them working on your car.

[faither]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
good idea but BAD idea...


if you've even sold one system with the pirated software on it, the company you quit may try to get you in trouble by saying you were "in on it". You obviously knew that the stuff was pirated, and you might be named as an accessory to the crime of some sort.

BE CAREFULL.

i do agree that its wrong and that you should nail them, but i would've done it anon.

I wouldn't sweat if they try to turn it back on you. You were there all of five days and left because of the illegal/immoral business practices. As long as you weren't in charge or an investor, you have nothing to worry about along these lines.

[Cubsfan]

By the way, let us know how it goes/what happens.