Sometimes you have to hate responsibility

[ufcrusher]

I was sitting here looking for Superbowl tickets and I was put into a bit of shock by how much they were going for. (I saw some going for ~$6000/ticket) So one of the sites I was on was listing Phish Tickets.

I decided to click on that to see how much they are getting for the tickets that I have to the show. I figure that it might be a bit over face but I didnt expect anything like this. I have 4 tickets in 2 groups of 2. The better seats, I paid $90 total for the two, are going for $350 each! The "crappy" seats....ones I complained when I got and bought the other two because of...were going for $180 each.

So I am sitting here scratching my head because the sites will buy you tickets and/or I could sell them for close to that much. Now, I am obviously going to go to the show and I was going to use the better seats. However, my younger brother got screwed on his tickets and so I told him that I would sell them to him for face value. If I had known I could have gotten that much I would probably have just sold them outright for enough to pay for all the tickets and some shirts. But now, I have to stand by my word and give him the tickets for what I paid.

On top of that, I probably shouldnt even be thinking about selling the tickets for more than face value, because of the fact that I am sworn to uphold the laws of the US and California.

Sometimes you really have to hate being responsible.

So out of curiousity...how many people have sold a pencil with a free ticket before? I used to do that in college, getting $150+ for tickets that I paid $8 for.

[blueindian]

i would never, never, never, never ever sell a ticket for more than face value. nor would i buy one. i think people that do should be drawn a quartered.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by ufcrusher
So out of curiousity...how many people have sold a pencil with a free ticket before? I used to do that in college, getting $150+ for tickets that I paid $8 for.

if you do that, is that a legal way to avoid scalping charges?

just curious.....i've never heard of it before

[Grimm]

Originally posted by blueindian
i would never, never, never, never ever sell a ticket for more than face value. nor would i buy one. i think people that do should be drawn a quartered.

I would. I want to get my Ticketbastard charge back and maybe a few bucks for my time. So I would probably sell a $35 ticket for $45 bucks.

[Hunny]

Originally posted by Grimm

I would. I want to get my Ticketbastard charge back and maybe a few bucks for my time. So I would probably sell a $35 ticket for $45 bucks.

The whole thought of adding some pocket money in for myself is tempting..but getting down to the nitty gritty of selling for more than its worth...I've got this do good to others and full circle gene in me...I'm too honest..I'd feel sorry for them and sell for the same price...of course, unless they were jerks, then maybe...

[ufcrusher]

Supposedly since you can sell your property, such as a pencil or pen for any price (whatever someone wants to pay), you can charge whatever you want without breaking the law. Since it isnt illegal to give away a ticket, by coupling the sale of the pencil with a gift of the ticket...you arent breaking the law.

Now if you were to ask me, for the standpoint of legality, whether this is true...I would have to say that its a colorable claim. At the same time, you would have to be clear about the sale of the pencil rather than the ticket and the purchaser would have to understand it.

As for scalping itself...I dont really have a problem with selling something for whatever someone is willing to buy it for. You can do that with houses, toys, computer parts...almost anything else. So its the American way. Now that said, in the past I have always been nice and sold extra tickets (Phish) that I had at face value. That said, when I was in college and I needed cash, I was willing to sell my football tickets for a premium, but I did it very carefully.

[dbax791]

Fiesta bowl tickets were going for around $1200 - I had the opportuntity to buy some for $200, but I wasn't thinking!

Scalping is legal in AZ, btw

[whitak24]

Originally posted by ufcrusher
As for scalping itself...I dont really have a problem with selling something for whatever someone is willing to buy it for. You can do that with houses, toys, computer parts...almost anything else. So its the American way. Now that said, in the past I have always been nice and sold extra tickets (Phish) that I had at face value. That said, when I was in college and I needed cash, I was willing to sell my football tickets for a premium, but I did it very carefully.

generally, i don't have a problem with scalping.

i guess where it bothers me is when it gets so out of hand that the normal fans (music fans, sports fans, whatever), don't really have a chance to go to the game because ticket brokers manage to manipulate the ticketbastard process and snag huge blocks of tickets. that immediately creates scarcity and drives the price into the stratosphere.

pretty soon, you have a situation where the only people at the "big" games and the "big" concerts are corporate bigwigs who can afford to shell out $5k-$10k for seats.

and i think that ultimately, that devalues the fan experience and weakens the fan base overall.....

[ufcrusher]

Yes, I happen to agree, that its completely BS how the ticketing agents use banks of autodialers to get through to Ticket master. When you sit there at the exact time the tickets go on sale and cant even get through on the phone or online...it gets pretty infuriating.

I saw something on the Discovery channel (I believe) that showed how they did it. I mean, this guy had around a lot of autodialers and within minutes he got through and got all the tickets he wanted. He also said that although he didnt do it, he knew of some people who paid the guys at ticketmaster to save certain seats for him for money. He also said that he paid guys to stand in line for him and that the internet was making it real easy for him.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by ufcrusher
He also said that he paid guys to stand in line for him and that the internet was making it real easy for him.

that's another huge thing, especially for shows in big cities like NYC, chicago, or LA. the brokers will get a bunch of homeless people and pay them $20 or give them pizza or whatever to stand in line and get armbands. that way no matter where the lottery ends up placing the start of the line, the brokers have someone who's going to be one of the first people up.

you can't blame the homeless people, because obviously they're just happy to get some easy money or food or whatever. but it's just another way to abuse the system

[attgig]

let's say you went to a school with an incredible basketball team.

They made it to the ncaa championships and since you're a student, you were able to camp out and get yourself some good seats...


Now, let's say, the market on them is really high.....
as in, you could pay for the last 2 years of your school by selling these tickets for "market value".

would you do it?

[WhiskeyPapa]

I don't understand the problem. Why is it ok for me to buy a watch at Goodwill for $9 and sell it on eBay for $215, yet selling a pair of tickets for what the market will bear is wrong.

I'm not saying I would do it, especially if it's against the law, I'm just saying I don't understand why "events" are treated different than "stuff".

I'll venture a guess: It's simply because of the strong influence the entertainment and sporting industry has in government. If you're making a $5,000 profit off your Superbowl tickets, the NFL thinks that should be their five grand, not yours.

[raimin]

I'm not a scalper...I'm a capitalist

[whitak24]

Originally posted by kb0wwp
I don't understand the problem. Why is it ok for me to buy a watch at Goodwill for $9 and sell it on eBay for $215, yet selling a pair of tickets for what the market will bear is wrong.

I'm not saying I would do it, especially if it's against the law, I'm just saying I don't understand why "events" are treated different than "stuff".

I'll venture a guess: It's simply because of the strong influence the entertainment and sporting industry has in government. If you're making a $5,000 profit off your Superbowl tickets, the NFL thinks that should be their five grand, not yours.

because such transactions turn sporting events or concerts into a sphere dominated by people who are rich enough to pay $5k for 4 hours of entertainment rather than the true fans who want to be there to cheer on their team.

in addition, because of manipulation of the corrupt ticketbastard ticket system by ticket brokers, discussed above, it's not like everyone has a fair shot to get tickets to the event directly from the venue.

it's the same thing as when each year's "hot new toy" is kept in short supply by the company that makes it. but then, imagine that in order to get the toy, you couldn't just camp out at your local toys-r-us on the day after thanskgiving. instead, you had to dial an 800 number. however, "toy brokers" had banks of hundreds of auto-dialers set up to jam all the lines to the 800 number so that they could get in first and buy up all the toys.

then, they start selling them for $2000 each. so now, instead of you as a parent getting the tickle-me-elmo for your kid because they've loved elmo since they were 2 years old, somebody making 7 figures buys it for their kid, not because the kid wants it, but because the parent wants to casually mention to their friends at work that they gave a tickle-me-elmo to their kid.

so suddenly, toys or tickets cease to be about fun or sports, they're about social and economic status. and i think that dillutes their value to society as a whole

[WhiskeyPapa]

You make good points, Whit, but I just can't get past the idea that it's just an event, or it's just a toy, or it's just a thing.

If my child's happiness depends on getting the "hot new toy", then I haven't done a very good job of instilling values into my kid.

I am a capitalist through-and-through. I believe the price of anything should be determined by supply and demand. If the supply of superbowl tickets is far below the demand, then they should be $6,000. Who cares if only the uber-rich can attend? It's on TV anyway.

We have this attitude of entitlement in this country. We believe we are entitled to affordable superbowl tickets. We believe we are entitled to affordable "hot new toys". We seek legislation to protect our "right" to get cheap concert tickets.

Another problem is that we don't see a connection between what we can't do now, and what we did (or didn't) do before. Maybe I can't afford a superbowl ticket because I didn't work harder in college to get better grades so I could have a better job. Maybe I can't get affordable health coverage because I smoked for 20 years. Maybe my kid can't have a tickle-me-elmo because I buy too many pull-tabs in the bar.

For 99.9% of us, our life style now (for better or worse) is a direct result of the choices we've made. And now we want the gub'mint to make it all better.

[whitak24]

i see your points to a certain extent.

yes, if your child's happiness depends on getting a tickle-me-elmo, the child has a lot of problems (liking elmo would be the foremost )

and yes, there is a lot of attitude of entitlement.

but i'm coming from an idealistic standpoint that says that some events should be open to those who care about it most, not to the highest bidder.

and as far as effort determining opportunity, that is true to some extent. but i have two responses to that:

1.) many other factors play a role as well: luck; what family you happened to be born in; oh, and of course whether you were born with natural abilities to allow you to rise to the top

2.) i am preparing to attend law school this fall. in a few years, if i choose to take my career that way, i will probably be in the position to shell out $6k for superbowl tickets. but i still think that every fan should have an equal shot at getting tickets for a reasonable price (that is, a price somehow related to the cost of staging the event) rather than ticket brokers buying up tickets to sell to rich people.

We seek legislation to protect our "right" to get cheap concert tickets.

i don't know how closely you followed the fight of various bands with ticketmaster, but this is another issue entirely, imo.

ticketmaster is a monopoly. as a result, they should be governed by antitrust laws. in addition, they have acted as a predatory monopoly, making every effort to try to punish venues and bands that have attempted to tour without utilizing their services. by doing so, they entrench their monopoly position. moreover, they are extracting monopoly rents on every ticket they sell, charging service fees that are at an unjustified level and which the market would not support if it were open and competitive.

of course, due to the political weight carried by the billionaire media magnates who own ticketmaster, investigations were shut down and no congressional action ever developed.

surprise, surprise, eh?