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Thread: Protesters rally against war

  1. #1
    Chief of Naval Operations sbp's Avatar
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    Protesters rally against war

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ar_protests_21

    WASHINGTON - Protesters rallied by the thousands in the bitter cold of Washington on Saturday and in capitals worldwide in a passionate show of dissent against war with Iraq. The cry "No blood for oil" echoed from America's National Mall to the streets of Pakistan.

    A rally outside the Capitol, followed by a march to a naval yard, anchored the demonstrations and brought spirited masses together to declare America the "Rogue Nation," as one sign put it.

    "We stand here today, a new generation of anti-war activists," Peta Lindsay from International Answer, the main organizers, exhorted the national rally. "This is just beginning. We will stop this war."

    Festive face paint adorned some in the crowd but wool hats were pulled down low and parkas were closely gathered against temperatures that edged up from the teens. Buses idled with heaters on and protesters occasionally darted inside for a warm spell before rejoining the rally.

    "We don't want this war and we don't want a government that wants this war," said Brenda Stokely, a New York City labor activist.

    A sign demanded, "Disarm Bush"; the crowd chanted, "No war on Iraq."

    Activists invoked the nonviolent legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. on the long weekend that marks the civil rights leader's birthday, and booed President Bush, who was at Camp David, Md.

    "Mr. Bush hung Dr. King's picture up in the White House last year but he need to hang up Dr. King's words," said the Rev. Al Sharpton, a Democratic presidential candidate.

    "In Iraq today there are weapons inspectors, but here on the west side of the Capitol are the moral inspectors," he said, referring to a bulk of the demonstrators. "We're inspecting the immoral policies that said, 'No, we can't find the weapons in Iraq, we want to go to war.'"

    As with any big Washington rally, the main cause made room for other causes.

    "Free Palestine" was one of them. Racism and genocide were others.

    "The underlying motives for this government's actions have always been greed and racism," said Moonanum James of United American Indians of New England.

    "In the spirit of Dr. King, in the spirit of Crazy Horse," he said, "no blood for oil."

    A major demonstration also was planned in San Francisco, and activists elsewhere. For many, the imperative was to come to Washington.

    In Lansing, Mich., several hundred people met at a church before marching 20 blocks to the state Capitol. "It's just great enthusiasm here, and a great spirit of peacemaking," said the Rev. Fred Thelen from Cristo Rey Catholic Church. Signs said: "Peace is Patriotic" and "Iraqis are not evil."

    Demonstrators also staged peace rallies worldwide, events that typically drew hundreds or fewer.

    But 5,000 people marched through downtown Tokyo, carrying toy guns filled with flowers and wearing face masks that parodied Bush. The crowd, made up largely of students and laborers, was orderly.

    Larry Holmes, speaking for organizers of the Washington rally, said protesters everywhere sense war is close.

    "It seems like it has a momentum and a sense of inevitability, and so we're rushing against the clock," he said. "So as they send the troops there and surround Iraq, we're sending the troops into the streets of Washington, D.C., so to speak."

    Three dozen people turned out by the Vietnam War Memorial to show support for President Bush's policy on Iraq and offer a contrary voice to the blitz of demonstrations.

    "The protesters don't understand the threat" of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, said Scott Johnson, 55, a Navy veteran from Minneapolis. "It's a war of liberation for people."

    Police said they had been assured the main rally and march, from the National Mall, around the Capitol, past Marine barracks and to the Washington Navy Yard, would stay peaceful.

    Overseas, 60 protesters in Hong Kong shouted, "War, no," and in Pakistan, the familiar refrain "No blood for oil" rang out — a refrain that accuses America of wanting to attack Iraq only to control its oil wealth.

    Several hundred people tried to march on the U.S. consulate in Lahore, but Pakistani authorities held the crowd back. Six were allowed to deliver an appeal to American officials to spare Iraqis from war.

    More than 400 New Zealanders demonstrated in Christchurch. In Moscow, a few hundred people agitated outside the U.S. Embassy in a protest organized by a branch of the Communist Party. People turned their backs to the building, and signs called the United States a "Global Cannibal."

    In the Syrian capital, Damascus, thousands marched with a message that was not all about peace. Many cried, "Our beloved Saddam, strike Tel Aviv," in celebration of Iraq's missile thrusts against Israel during the 1991 Gulf War and in hope Saddam would strike again. In the Gaza Strip, Palestinians rallied under the same slogan.

    In Washington, demonstrators hoped the weekend protests and more ahead would win over an American public that is unsettled by the prospect of an Iraq war yet supportive of Bush's leadership.

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    Rear Admiral Lower Half ProMinx's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about going down to the Anti-war rally outside the Los Angeles Federal building with signs that read "Stop the war on America. Shut up the protesters." or write "Honk if you support the war." on the protester side of a sign and "Honk if you like cookies." on the street side. God, I hate those protesters. This war isn't about oil, you bloody one-dimensional pricks. Think this through. A mad man has nukes in his possession and is actively seeking to get more. He also has a vendetta against our nation. I say demolish the country, destroy the nuke, and blow the guy's F-ing head off. S-t, I'll do it myself if no one else wants the job.

    ProMinx

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    Saddam has nukes Promix? I was unaware you were a weapons inspector and somehow know everything he has.

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    Commander TERRIBLETOM's Avatar
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    I like the slogan "Peace through superior firepower".

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    Lieutenant Commander NullUnit2000's Avatar
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    [i]A mad man has nukes in his possession and is actively seeking to get more.[/B]
    Yeah, I believe his name is GW Bush. Why don't YOU think it through. Who's starting this war anyways. How many of Dubya's old Texas oil buddies are drooling on themselves at the thought of being able to take over Iraq's oil wells. We know for sure N. Korea has nukes and the ablity to use them, but are we invading, or even threatining to invade. No, because they have no oil.

    GW is a transparent prick. There are far more economic reasons for this war than political ones.
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    Vice Admiral blueindian's Avatar
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    yup, i wanted to go to that protest, but it didn't work out. i'm glad to see people protesting. if we get enough of it, perhaps 'ole dubya will ease up on his war mongering a bit.
    yeah, pretty much we missed the boat on that one. but it's still here. get you some.

  7. #7
    I have not been to any of the protests, but I want to chime in to support them. The protesters against this war are the true patriots. They are doing as their concious dictates and legaly protesting against the United States showing agression to a smaller nation. This is only going to get us into trouble with the few middle eastern countries that don't hate us. Oil prices will skyrocket and Dubbya's oil industry palls will make even bigger fortunes.

    Everything he says and does is to make his cronies more money. He is doing this at the expense of the nation. I would rather have Clinton back, and i really, really hated Clinton.

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    Admiral molecularfire's Avatar
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    Ok, first of all let me say that I do support the anti-war protesters. I actually agree with going to war with Iraq, but as far as I'm concerned, they have a right to say what they want as long as they keep it non-violent (which they are).

    Now... why do I support going to war with Iraq. Simply put, Iraq is a threat to us. They would attack us (they definitely would attack our allies in that area) if they could. Leaving an enemy in a position where they could someday get back at you is IMO conceited to the extent of foolhardiness. Now... do I think Bush's intentions are honorable in this... no. I'm not that stupid. But, Iraq has shown that it is willing to pick on those weaker than itself so I have no problem with us using our superior power against them. Secondly, there is evidence that Iraq has broken a couple of the rules of their agreement. Have we found weapons in Iraq, no. Have they been helpful in our examination, no. Simply put, we have the power, they don't. Why should we let them get away with blatently breaking the rules that we have set fourth.

    Now... I do NOT support going to war with N. Korea for several reasons. First of all, yes N. Korea has the bomb. This makes them a more serious threat so if we're going to attack them, we need to do so fast. We can't have this international lets get a tank from every country and attack this country together after 15 years of figuring how is the most moral way to do it attitude. There is no room for indecision on this. We either attack them, or we don't. If we do, there is a VERY good probability that they will feel pressured to bomb either S. Korea or Japan to show us that they're not backing down. Secondly, N. Korea has no interest in using the bomb. A weapon like that is useful for only one thing... extortion. If they use the bomb, then they lose the option of using it for extortion. Hell... N. Korea is still hoping to talk with Japan because lets face it... Japan is famous for giving you money if you hold talks with them. Personally, I wouldn't turn down a couple billion either. Thirdly, if we're going to be going to war with Iraq... we really don't want a second place were we have to fight. First of all, we're going to look like we're war hungry. Secondly, if history has taught us anything, it is to NEVER EVER fight a 2 front war. It didn't work for the Romans, it didn't work for Napoleon, it sure as heck didn't work for Hitler, etc...
    Disclaimer - The above opinion should not be taken as medical advise. My only advise is to talk to your doctor. If you are stupid enough to take anything I say seriously, you have nobody to blame for your cranio-anal inversion but your stupid self.

    I may not be smart enough to do everything but I am dumb enough to try anything. - Beastboy.

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    Admiral molecularfire's Avatar
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    Can't believe I forgot to put in the most important part of my rant.



    Whether what we do in Iraq is going to be considered a success (at least IMO) isn't whether or not we can invade Iraq. Let's face it, if we attack them, we'll win. A success IMO is going to be based on whether after we tear that country down, whether we can build up something that is better than what we turn down. If not, I consider the war a failure because someone else just like him will replace him.
    Disclaimer - The above opinion should not be taken as medical advise. My only advise is to talk to your doctor. If you are stupid enough to take anything I say seriously, you have nobody to blame for your cranio-anal inversion but your stupid self.

    I may not be smart enough to do everything but I am dumb enough to try anything. - Beastboy.

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    Rear Admiral Upper Half WhiskeyPapa's Avatar
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    True patriots? Here's a list of a few of the organizers of this rally:

    Socialist Party USA
    The New Communist Party of the Netherlands
    The Workers World Party
    The Nicaragua Network
    The International Family and Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal (a convicted cop-killer)

    The list goes on, unfortunately, their names don't fully describe their agenda. This was nothing more than an anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-Military, anti-Capitalism rally, all dressed up as an anti-war rally. Too bad thousands of otherwise good people got duped into attending.

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by kb0wwp

    The Workers World Party
    thats practically a pro-nazism group.

    sure they have the right as americans to say whatever they want, but truth be told they are the scum of america and against everything the US is great for.

  12. #12
    Admiral zenbooty's Avatar
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    Originally posted by xsiled2
    [B]thats practically a pro-nazism group.[B]
    Actually, its basically a pro-socialism group, which is diametrically opposed to fascism, the political system of the Nazis.
    Common sense is what tells you the Earth is flat.

  13. #13
    shibuya girl
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    a bunch of tree hugging hippies!

    speaking of iraq, whatever happened to osama?

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    Vice Admiral blueindian's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kb0wwp
    True patriots? Here's a list of a few of the organizers of this rally:

    Socialist Party USA
    The New Communist Party of the Netherlands
    The Workers World Party
    The Nicaragua Network
    The International Family and Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal (a convicted cop-killer)

    The list goes on, unfortunately, their names don't fully describe their agenda. This was nothing more than an anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-Military, anti-Capitalism rally, all dressed up as an anti-war rally. Too bad thousands of otherwise good people got duped into attending.
    where'd you get that info from? got a link?
    yeah, pretty much we missed the boat on that one. but it's still here. get you some.

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    Actually fascism isnt diametrically opposed to socialism. They both use systems of social welfare. They both believe in powerful central governments. The difference really is that facism is based on a vague national-militarism and socialism has a social agenda.

    The difference between Stalin and Hitler was not much. Truth be told I'd rather live in nazi germany than stalinist russia. The polar opposite of socialism is Libertarian and the polar opposite of facism is a Populist. No offense to any Populists or Libertarians, but you can see that either extreme sucks.

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    Commander TERRIBLETOM's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kb0wwp
    True patriots? Here's a list of a few of the organizers of this rally:

    Socialist Party USA
    The New Communist Party of the Netherlands
    The Workers World Party
    The Nicaragua Network
    The International Family and Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal (a convicted cop-killer)

    The list goes on, unfortunately, their names don't fully describe their agenda. This was nothing more than an anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-Military, anti-Capitalism rally, all dressed up as an anti-war rally. Too bad thousands of otherwise good people got duped into attending.
    I have heard about these groups on talk radio and they have been labeled as communist and anti-America groups. So I for one agree with kb0wwp

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    Vice Admiral blueindian's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TERRIBLETOM
    I have heard about these groups on talk radio and they have been labeled as communist and anti-America groups. So I for one agree with kb0wwp
    so because some 2-bit talk show radio host -- or more likely a talk radio guest -- has labeled them anti-american, you agree with that label? And further agree that these are indeed the people that organized this march?

    both marches were organized by International Answer. www.internationalanswer.org. I've only looked briefly for a link to these groups, but i've not found it yet.
    yeah, pretty much we missed the boat on that one. but it's still here. get you some.

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    Vice Admiral blueindian's Avatar
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    Originally posted by revil
    a bunch of tree hugging hippies!

    speaking of iraq, whatever happened to osama?
    dude...osama bin laden is, like, sooooooo 2001.
    yeah, pretty much we missed the boat on that one. but it's still here. get you some.

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    Rear Admiral Upper Half WhiskeyPapa's Avatar
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    Originally posted by blueindian
    where'd you get that info from? got a link?
    http://www.internationalanswer.org/endorsers.html

    You'll find many more illustrious participants that you would be proud to be associated with.

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    Commander TERRIBLETOM's Avatar
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    so because some 2-bit talk show radio host -- or more likely a talk radio guest -- has labeled them anti-american, you agree with that label? And further agree that these are indeed the people that organized this march?
    You bet, they pointed out enough simple and intelligent information that anyone could understand.

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    No offense but talk radio hosts are by and large hard core right wing republicans, many of whom consider the democratic party as "anti-american," whatever that is. I don't hold their opinion too highly, they are just talking heads with an agenda like all the others. I don't trust anyone's political opinion 100% except my own.

    Everyone in media, whether it be radio, tv or written is biased so the only way to get the truth is to investigate for yourself. What Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity think is rather worthless unless you are completely brain dead and can't form opinion on your own.

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    Commander TERRIBLETOM's Avatar
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    I use talk radio for news and to gather information to make my own reasonable decisions. While there are republicans on this show there are just as many Democrats and Liberals. I don't always agree with everything they say but I take it all in consideration and make my own conclusions. No one wants to send men and woman over sea's for war purposes but I do think these antiwar protests are more damaging than anything else. Just as France announced that they would veto any US resolution that would result in war, that's a slap in every Americans face. They are just anti US and everything we stand and thrive for.

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    Admiral molecularfire's Avatar
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    No one wants to send men and woman over sea's for war purposes but I do think these antiwar protests are more damaging than anything else. Just as France announced that they would veto any US resolution that would result in war, that's a slap in every Americans face. They are just anti US and everything we stand and thrive for.
    Ok... first of all, everything we stand and thrive for demands that we allow them to have and express their opinions. To have a problem with people expressing their beliefs is IMO the most unamerican thing that someone can say. That's the thing that makes us different from those that we are fighting. Now... as for the France thing... France usually against wars (heck, most of Europe is). Given their past (especially France's record in WW2 and the Vietnam war) I'm not surprised. If I fought as bad as France, I'd be against fighting too.
    Disclaimer - The above opinion should not be taken as medical advise. My only advise is to talk to your doctor. If you are stupid enough to take anything I say seriously, you have nobody to blame for your cranio-anal inversion but your stupid self.

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  24. #24
    Vice Admiral blueindian's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kb0wwp

    http://www.internationalanswer.org/endorsers.html

    You'll find many more illustrious participants that you would be proud to be associated with.
    so some groups you don't like endorse anti war marches. big deal...that doesn't mean squat as far as i'm concerned. the fact that i too am opposed to the war just means that i happen to agree with them on something. it does not mean that i have to support their entire agenda.

    and tom, how is france's resolution a slap in every americans face. need an example of one who does not feel slapped? me. not everyone wants that war, and countries are not obliged to do what we want just because we are, in our own opinions, the best country in the world. how can you fault france for not agreeing with GW's stance on the war?
    yeah, pretty much we missed the boat on that one. but it's still here. get you some.

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    Just as France announced that they would veto any US resolution that would result in war, that's a slap in every Americans face. They are just anti US and everything we stand and thrive for.
    OK, so you don't have a problem with individual people being pacifists, but you do have a problem with whole countries being pacifists?

    Its like you are saying, "i dont mind if people protest because it wont change anything or alter our decisions" but when a whole country protests, "its a slap in teh face of americans." Funny, I don't feel slapped.

    Maybe its a news to you but other countries are sovereign nations, they can do whatever they want. We can attack Iraq with or without France's approval, and they can choose to veto our moves in the UN.

    The problem I have is that Bush seems so certain that Iraq has these weapons. He says it very matter-of-factly when talking about it on the news. If his evidence and proof were so good wouldnt other people be easily convinced by the overwhelming proof? Its not like he is a genius and the leaders of the entire rest of the world are idiots who cant understand his complex proof.

    A few days ago in another thread someone said, "if everyone says you're wrong, you're prolly wrong." The whole rest of the world is telling us to slow down, we should slow down.

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by Cantacuzene
    but you do have a problem with whole countries being pacifists?
    france seems to be the universal pacifist so their reasoning on war is invalid. white flags up and waving.

  27. #27
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    I don;t think Frances preformance in its last two wars is France's fault at all.

    Vietnam they were in the same boat as us, except they didnt have billions and billions of dollars to throw at the problem like we did.

    In WW2 they were beaten by a very worthy foe. SO they surrendered after a few weeks. What were they supposed to do? Their entire army was destroyed or captured. Were they supposed to fight on guerrilla style and have all their citizens killed?

    Lets not forget that France fought very well in WW1. They fought in the trenches against the germans and lost MILLIONS of soldiers. Compare that to the 100,000 or so we lost and you can see why they arent all about war.

    Don't forget also that the greatest general in modern history and argueably all of history was the emperor of france.

    Up until the Gulf War, our recent war history wasnt that spectacular either. Time changes all things...

  28. #28
    Commander TERRIBLETOM's Avatar
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    Ok... first of all, everything we stand and thrive for demands that we allow them to have and express their opinions. To have a problem with people expressing their beliefs is IMO the most unamerican thing that someone can say. That's the thing that makes us different from those that we are fighting. Now...
    If the twin towers incident happened in France they would be crying to the UN for justice instead off getting of there a*ses like spineless jelly fish, I say we cut them loose.
    and tom, how is france's resolution a slap in every americans face. need an example of one who does not feel slapped? me. not everyone wants that war, and countries are not obliged to do what we want just because we are, in our own opinions, the best country in the world. how can you fault france for not agreeing with GW's stance on the war?
    France has made up it's mind without keeping there eyes open. And of course you don't feel slapped in the face, you didn't loose anyone in 9/11
    OK, so you don't have a problem with individual people being pacifists, but you do have a problem with whole countries being pacifists?
    I did mention that the anti-war protest are doing more damage than anything else,they are dividing a nation in stead of standing behind it. Sadam is a loaded gun waiting to go off,he always has been. maybe we should point him towards France.
    Last edited by TERRIBLETOM; 01-21-2003 at 09:48 PM.

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by Cantacuzene
    I don;t think Frances preformance in its last two wars is France's fault at all.
    so you are to say that the Maginot Line was a great idea while they left their left flank totally unguarded to the most powerful force the world had ever seen. france sucked and sucked hard. if hitler wasnt a moron in attacking russia, the west as we know it would not exsist.

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    I'm sure you've taken a class on military history Xsiled so you obviously know that the majority of teh French army wasn't on the Maginot line, they were in reserve exactly where they should have been. the Maginot Line has been over hyped as the csue of French defeat in WW2 but it had nothing to do with that.

    The French lost because the German Panzer divisions recklessly broke away from their infantry and cut the French army in two. Had the French reserves smashed the Panzers when they broke away from the German infantry it would have been the Germans who got cut off, surrounded and destroyed. The Germans gambled and won. The difference between Heinz Guderrian being labeled a genius as he is now and a loon was very slim.

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