Debate Christianity

[ejimakated]

P.S.

Just so I am not misunderstood, all I'm saying is that the pro-Christian arguments here (i.e. Cornmonkey) are better organized, more informed, and, in my opinion, more convincing. The others just aren't cuttin the mustard.

[prtlewd]

Ejivakated:

"get your stories straight before you post your ill-informed opnions up here and make fools of yourselves. Makes the rest of the non-Christians look ignorant."
opnions????(sp) I am sorry to say but your post is the most inane of the whole bunch. And you seem to know very little for someone against senseless ranting & raving done w/o research.

Chief Broom

"In the flood, there is NO WAY Noah could have gotten his message around the world, just in his local area...so immediately"

Who said the Ark which was to carry 2 of each chosen species, in existence, was not "built immediately". And if they could build ships they could travel, also the continents were not as spread out and there was more water back in those days.

On Gods cruelty: Everything dies eventually, painfully or painlessly regardless of good or bad, so it's not cruelty that makes god kill us. We all have to go to make room for our spawns and not became a burden on them or the society.

For those arguing about science and religion: God is the creator of all things, chemicals, minerals, the whole of the universe, they are interconnected with us and everything around us. It does not seem plausible to do experiments about the earth's atmosphere millions of years ago considering how much it has changed just in the past 100 years. I hear oxygen and this and that when we are all carbon based bio-neuro-psycho-social organisms.

Every human spends about half an hour as a single cell.
One human brain generates more electrical impulses in a single day than all of the world's telephones put together. Evolution is a pointless theory that will never be proven, I would say adaptation is the better argument. God is all knowing, all seeing, and the creator of everything on earth including the things we can create with the brains we have. We have reached the bottoms of the sees and torn the skies and still don't see god but that's what faith is, that the whole argument and test here.

I would agree with kimchi and I do respect everyone's opinions because god is a very individual thing that you can't learn from any organized religion.
Look at this link, philosophers who are notorious in refuting the existence of God have spent most of their lives arguing the issue
ie http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/ar...094+25,00.html

Descartes, the "father of modern philosophy," is significant in terms of his reacting against external authority in matters of belief, seeking a fresh basis for certainty, and finding it in the existence of his own mind. He must think in order to doubt his existence, hence his famous statement, Cogito ergo sum ("I think, therefore, I am"). Henceforward, much significance was given to the individual mind.

[Y2J]

Lets look at this for a second:

The Old testament declares there to be one messiah, and when that happens, there will be world peace, and he will walk through the gates in Jerusalem and the dead will rise again and return to the holy land.

All of a sudden, Mary, who claimed to be a virgin (you never know) had a kid. Jesus Christ, an orthodox rabbi, who followed all customs in judiasm. He had some different intrepetations of the torah, and he started to have followers. Since you are not allowed to have people bow down to a mortal person in Judiasm, the head rabbis were upset at Jesus. He was actually killed by the mayor in the city he lived, a public execution. It is believed that the rabbis in Jerusalem bribed the mayor of the province to dispose (for lack of a better word) of Jesus. then 4 of his followers claim to have seen him again. BS.

Also, in the torah, G-D claims that he will send false prophets at us and make sure we are true believers. It seems to me as if the christians fell for it

[Booyamos]

Well kimchi43 I went to that site you posted, nothing there, unable to find file, guess that just proves my point, he he just kidding bad link or something oh well.

Ya but anyways... first of all lets get this straight for CornMonkey, I do not believe in god, for these reasons:

1. No one has has even a little bit of evidence to show me that there actually is a god, and I am talking about facts here, not supposed "miracles". I am still waiting for people to bring about some sort of proof here, or any thing saying there is a god, and if you start quoting the bible, I don't care. I don't really believe the bible, yes it is full of some good stories and rules for people to follow, but I just don't believe it.

2. Logically it just doesn't make sense (well to me at least). I mean there is this all powerful being who is above us watching us and he decides if when we die we go to this magical place were everything is good, or we go to the pits of hell and live in torture, FOREVER. Forever is a looooooong time, you know how many people there would be in heaven, ha well probably hell right now? DAMN. It just sounds like a fairy tale to me. What would be the best thing that could happen to you after you die? You go to this other world were all your dreams come true and everything is happy and nice. What could be the worst thing? You burn for eternity and are tortured and live on in pain for eternity. Just seems like another one of those things to get people to behave, something you would tell a child so they would behave. If you are good santa will bring you presents, if you are bad santa will bring you coal. SAME THING.

There are many other reasons but I just don't feel like going on an on about that now.

To ejimakated:
In my opinion no one is really winning any arguement here, and hey that's how it always is, both sides are very stuborn so no one ever gets anywhere, but oh well. So you want more facts and for us to get out stories straght huh, well lets see I am at work, just chillin and in my free time I read a few posts, post some responses. I don't really care enough at the moment to go look up stuff. Maybe later sometime, but for now I am just arguing things with simple facts, fact A: no one can prove the existance of god, fact B: with out a god there is no religion. So ya, I know someone will respond with something to that... just waiting.

To kimchi43 (again): I know that not all churches are like that, and it is good that you and your church go out and do things for the community, just with the experiences I have had with church and my friends who go to church, just baddd things... blah. It seems that a lot of younger people are very religious just because their parents are, they are blindly following their faiths, until they get out on their own and can finally choose for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

Damn it I am doing to many things at oncehere, but I should get back to work, enough fun here. Anyways don't mean to piss anyone off, or do I? hmmmm... but just saying what I think.

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~Kacarp~

"Where is your ****** god now?" The mole

[bNorrish]

What I REALLY don't like is when Christians prove their point by saying: "God is great, God is supreme, God is this, God is that, God did this, God did that, the Bible says this, the Bible says that, we are all scum sucking no nothings compared to him, yadda yadda yadda" These arguments prove nothing to me except how ignorant and stubborn you are and that you feel you have to advertise your religion. And if you really feel that you must continue this behavior, become a mormon, unless you already are.

[kimchicowboy]

kacarp: sorry man. the link i had up had a comma at the end. click this: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apo...nevidence.html . and you want proof of the existence of a god if not the Christian God. well, i think good proof IS the creation model. do you know of any other way the universe was created besides the big bang (since the big bang is being discredited)? and i think you are misguided in the going to heaven or a magical place. there is big debate if there is fate of free-will in Christianity. I personally believe in free-will. man has the free-will to accept God or not. so it is not God sending us to heaven or hell but ourself. do you think the humans are the only beings with souls? that's the difference between humans animals and othr things. so when the body dies, where does the soul go? =)

bNorrish: you never really answered the question i had up top in my previous post. i was wondering what your response is. =) no offense, but you sound ignorant yourself with that last post. what is truth to you? have you ever tried finding it? =) peace.

[Y2J]

Good proof is the Christian model? That is the jewish model actually. Yes, the creation is the same for both of out religions

[Y2J]

Proof (in my mind) there is a G-D.
A "life goal" is one that brings you to a heightened state of being. For example, a businessman's goal is to be rich. Trading stocks or investing in real estate is the means to help accomplish that goal.

A similar formula applies to Judaism. The goal of Judaism is to cultivate the greatest possible relationship with God.

The 613 mitzvot are separate constructs which teach us about the reality of God's existence and how to live with that awareness.

Most of the 613 mitzvot in the Torah require the performance of a certain action - like giving charity, or eating matzah on Passover. These are the means to the end.

The "goal mitzvot" are the Six Constant Mitzvot. Rather than requiring the performance of a certain action, these mitzvot are a state of being, of living with the reality of God's existence.

The Six Constant Mitzvot are:

Know there is a God
Don't believe in other gods
God is one
Love God
Fear God
Don't be misled by your heart and eyes
Every moment of awareness is another occasion to actualize these goals. None of the other mitzvot has that same constant opportunity, and that's why the Six Constant Mitzvot are our priority. All the other mitzvot only build and bolster these goals.

INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF GOD
The first of the Ten Commandments declares: "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt" (Exodus 20:2).

This is the mitzvah to "Know there is a God."

The logic underlying this commandment seems difficult to understand. Someone who already observe God's commandments obviously believes in His existence -- so what need is there for a new command to do so? And if someone doesn't know that God exists, why should he listen to this command?!

So exactly who is this mitzvah for?

The answer is that we should not believe in God "on faith" alone. Investigate the evidence. Get knowledge. Research. Study. Analyze. It is a fundamental principle of Judaism: You have to know, not just believe.

EMOTIONAL TRUST
"You shall know this day, and understand it in your heart, that the Almighty is God" (Deut. 4:39, the Aleynu prayer)

But there's more. It is not enough to intellectually know that God is in charge of everything. You must also know it in your heart. This emotional knowledge is much more profound, because it affects how a person actually conducts his life.


The circus performer is willing to walk the tightrope because he is confident there's a net below to catch him. Similarly, a child will jump down off a ledge into his father's arms, completely confident that his father will catch him.

The whole point of life is to strengthen your awareness of God. How do you know if you're really aware of God? Through trust. If you are, then you are willing to walk the tightrope, so to speak, or jump into your father's arms.

STEPS TO TRUST IN GOD
Rebbeinu Bechaya, in his 12th century book of self-improvement, "Duties of the Heart" (Chovos Halevavos), describes key four steps to build trust in God:

Step one is to realize that the Almighty loves you with unbounded love. The closest thing we can compare this to is the love a parent has for a child. The Almighty is our Father in Heaven. His love for us exceeds all of the love in this world. Awareness of God is to live with this realization.

Deep down we know that God loves us. Anyone in trouble prays to God. This is true even of people who have ignored Him all their lives. As the saying goes, "there's no atheist in a foxhole." Even if you've done everything wrong, when you need your Father, He's there.

STEP TWO -- DIRECT LINE
The U.S. Defense Department spends millions of dollars each year to send broadcast signals to distant stars, on the chance there's life out there. It may take 2,000 years for the signals to get there, but they're still listening 'round the clock.

If they ever get an answer -- even just a "hello" -- the whole world would be flabbergasted.

Have you ever had a prayer answered? Four out of five people will say "yes." The Creator of this universe has privately communicated with you. It's mind-boggling.

Most people whose prayer was answered didn't even know in which direction to send the signal! They simply said, "God, please help..." Five billion human beings, a whole galaxy of planets and stars -- and God answered this individual!

The mitzvah of belief in God means living with the reality that you're not alone. God's awareness and attention to every detail is constant. He picks up signals when you ask.

STEP THREE - HE DOES IT ALL
If your parent gives you a dollar, you're actually diminishing his net worth -- even if he's a multi-millionaire. But if the Almighty gives you a billion dollars, it does not diminish His net worth. God has all the power. He created this universe from nothing. He can make you a genius. He can heal your child. He can do anything.

Think about how many miracles God made for you to breathe your first lungful of air. A fetus doesn't use lungs; it takes oxygen from the mother's blood. When a child is born, the baby has to breathe on its own and the whole biological system changes. A heart valve closes, the lungs inflate -- and it all has to fall into place at exactly at the right time.

Think about how much God has given you since you were born into this world. He is leading you every step of the way.

Everything God does for you is a gift. And whatever you want from God is nothing compared to what He's already given you. If you're asking for a billion dollars, it's nothing compared to a pair of eyes that He gave you for free.

God sustains the universe every second -- every creature, every blade of grass. God makes your heart pump. He provides your food. He created the sun with heat and light. There is nothing that can stop God. Your parents, teachers and boss are the delivery people. Every single thing you have is sent from God.

Knowing this gives you confidence to trust that God will continue to give you everything you need.

STEP FOUR -- BEST OF EVERYTHING
God doesn't need anything from you. He doesn't need you to eat kosher food, or to observe Shabbat.

God only wants to give. Everything in the world is for our benefit.

So if God doesn't grant your desire, you have to ask yourself why. Why hasn't God given you $100 million dollars?

Maybe it's not good for you. Maybe you'd become arrogant, greedy, excessive. Maybe you'd hire others to accomplish your goals, and you'd miss out on making the effort to try.

God knows what's good for us. Trust in God means understanding that when He doesn't give you something, it's a message. He's trying to wake you up, to get you to reevaluate your goals.

Good parents do this with their children, too. A child wants five cookies; you give him one. Or you take him to the doctor to get a shot: The child is crying, "Why are you doing this to me?" But you know it's for his own good.

Anytime something bad happens, you have to ask yourself, "Why?" Understand that God knows what he's doing. He's trying to raise us up. He knows what's good for us and He wants us to have the best of everything.

GIVING UP WHEN THINGS GET TOUGH
"Man's self-destructive tendency (yetzer hara) overpowers him daily and threatens to kill him. Were it not for God's help, man would not survive." (Talmud - Kiddushin 30)
Every single aspect of our existence depends on God. Whether we stand up, raise our hands, use our brain, do a mitzvah, or battle the desire to do the wrong thing, our ability is all a gift from God. We are powerless without Him.

It follows, then, that any goal is attainable if God gives us the power.

So how did the phrase "I can't" enter our lexicon?

The Talmud reports that Moses reprimanded the Jewish people: "When you stood at Mount Sinai, God asked, 'Who will insure that you will always fear God?' You should have replied 'Almighty, You will.' You should have seized the opportunity to request that God give you fear of Heaven."

The Jews wanted to be able to take full credit for their fear of Heaven, therefore they were reluct

[reg]

[ejimakated]

To prtlewd:

I have read many of the posts here, from BOTH sides, some of which are thoughtful, and some of which are not. Just out of curiosity, when you state that I seem to know very little, I'd like to know upon what specifically you are basing this opinion. Something tells me that something I said touched a sensitive nerve in you; perhaps you felt I was personally attacking you...? If so, well, I wasn't directing my comment to anybody in particular, but perhaps there is some underlying reason you felt I was speaking of you...

Also, I would like to know if you consider yourself a Christian or not. It seems that many of your points favor the Christian argument, while still others border on blasphemy. Just wanted to have that cleared up so I know how to approach you.

I'm not trying to create any bad blood here. I've just found this whole discussion very amusing, and while I've enjoyed reading what everyone's had to say, I've also had to stop myself from laughing at some of the logic that has been presented. If that isolates me as judgmental or self-righteous, bah... I never put much stock in the company of others anyway.

This is shaping up to be an endless game of ping-pong, and though this may have its intellectual/philosophical/theological/logical merits, I fail to see its point. I'm beginning to feel some of the people here are no longer interested in the debate any more than they are interested in making themselves sound "smart." I mean, are we arguing for the sake of arguing here?

You'll have to forgive me for my cynicism. I like having enemies...

[This message has been edited by ejimakated (edited 06-08-2000).]

[prtlewd]

Eji,

I guess I found your post offensive because it was judgemental. I see this topic as a debate and not an argument so no ones opinions should be considered right or wrong because if there is one thing that people will never agree on is religious belief.
They go against Gods own decrees and kill each other over it and thev've done so for millions of years.
The truth is very simple: If there is a god(by the way [I] don't question it), then there is only one how you get to him is entirely upto the individual mainly upbringing.
No story ever goes thru 10 people w/o getting embellished or summerized. So those are not the best ways to explain how anything works.
As for my religion I am a monotheist in the purest form and believe myself to be a Jew, Christian, and a Muslim and no one can tell me otherwise. I consider all the non-book religions valid also ie buddhism. God has had to send us hundreds of prophets because we take no time at all to lose our way. How long was moses gone when his people decided the golden calf was a more tangible god? Or we divide one religion into a hundred sects because a particular issue doesn't suit our mood or lifestyle.
Will anyways that's enough for me. My beef with you was just the narrow-minded comment of telling anyone they did not make sense. I admit I am ignorant, this planet is huge and the universe even bigger so there is no way anyone will ever know enough.

[WAnk]

wow, i find it humorous that every forum i have been too has had this exact same discussion, with basically the same arguements presented a few things, i am an atheist, but i not about to flame anyone else for their beliefs. reason being, i have been outcast from my family, my friends and basically everywhere else for the 4 or 5 some years i have been a self-proclaimed atheist. anyways, i don't really have a beef with religion, as long as they don't try to convert me. I do have a major beef with christianity because of the way they practice their religion. my entire life i thought something was wrong, and got scolded by sunday school teachers and preachers when i questioned the practices of my church. basically, they way i think of it, i have been knocked for my beliefs for quite some time now, so as much as i would like to go rampaging and just bust out yelling about ignorance, why my beliefs are "better", etc etc, it just brings out the worst in all of us. in anycase, my views are represented here, and i don't really have too much in the way of constructive arguements to bring up. I don't know why people insist on debating this EVERYWHERE. people know full well what they are starting, people post, everyone gets mad, yadda yadda. what really irks me is when one side or the other claims they 'won' the arguement. i have seen this too many times, and was like WTF. no one wins this arguement. if they did, it would not be going on still. This post is rambling fairly well now, so, anyways have fun with the rest of the discussion call me a weak minded fool if you must for not joining, but hey, i am just the new guy, right?

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ummmmmm, WAnk????

[prtlewd]

WAnk you did post so unbeknowest to you, you have joined. It's called a debate because no one will win, I hope no one expects too, that would be silly.

[Booyamos]

I would have to agree with wank, maybe cause he is my friend.... but ya. To me this entire debate is just very amusing, it makes no difference to me what people think about my beliefs (since I have none really) but I find it interesting that you can get people so worked up about all of this. I think a lot of it is because if people cannot fathom what would happen if they were to let go of their religion. A world with out god to them seems pointless, and hey maybe it is. That is why in my opinion a lot of people cling to religion because they cannot live with out thinking that there is a purpose to their life. Well there is a purpose to our lives, to pass on our genes, multiply, we are all just animals anyways and that is the goal in all other animals, to pass on your genes as many times as you can.

Yep but anyways, that was a very long and interesting post there Y2J. I think you might be on the right track, I think people just need to "find god" (I use that term loosely...) in their own ways. For some of us it may be in realizing that there is no god, and dealing with that, for others it may be through christianity, not my personal choice but hey. Anyways I think this is enough posting for me on here, just something to do during slow times at work anyways.

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~Kacarp~

"Where is your ****** god now?" The mole


[This message has been edited by Kacarp (edited 06-08-2000).]

[CornMonkey]

Kacarp,

Can you prove that God DOESN'T exist?

I work in an office building. And, I wonder...how was this building made? Surely, there must have been an architect, or builder, if you will, who created this office. But how do I know? I've never experienced this builder with any of my five sense--I've never seen him, I've never heard him, I've never smelled him, I've never touched him, and I've never tasted him. I've never even read about him in some book filled with good builder stories.

Believing in the EXISTENCE of a god is one matter...and putting your faith IN a god is another.

But isn't it comforting to know that God doesn't believe in atheists, either?


P.S. Like a good friend told me, I believe atheists are in a win-win situation. If atheists are right, and there is no God, they are able to live their lives totally devoid of God(just the life they want). But if they are wrong, and God sends them to hell, they'll spend an eternity devoid of God(just the after-life they want). So whether they're right or wrong, if atheists hold on to their beliefs long enough, they'll eventually get what they want...

[Booyamos]

Ha damn just keep getting sucked back in here. But to answer your question, no I can not prove that god does not exist, but you can not prove that he does exist. You can take unanswerable questions and say "I can't explain it so God did it". It is a no win situation. And lol, I liked your ps about athiest having a win-win situation. I would prefer it if I were to go to a heavenly place were there were beautiful naked women all around, but hey wouldn't we all

And I usually do no classify myself as an athiest because even with all of my experiences and things, I cannot explain everything that happens in this world. So I can not prove that there is no god, but I can no prove there is, so I am agnostic, don't know what there is, still looking. I must say it would make things a lot easier and more comforting if you were to know that something was up there watching you. But anyways, work is done, time to go home.. woo hoo.

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~Kacarp~

"Where is your ****** god now?" The mole

[Chief Broom]

TO KIMCHI:

"for one thing, God's said that He's not going to destroy Earth with a flood ever again. and another thing, how do we know that there were other people around during Noah's time? when exactly WAS noah's time?"

So as long as i promise not to kill kids anymore, it doesnt matter that I killed almost every kid in the entire world? I dont think so, thats just plain EVIL. And it doesnt matter if there were other continents with people on them really, it's the fact that God killed almost every single person in the world....THATS ****ED UP

--------------------------------

TO CORNMONKEY:

I believe in God, but not in the Christian God. I actually honestly believe that God is merciful, and perfect. I believe that God is beautiful, and forgiving (of EVERYONE...). The bible doesnt show me this God. It shows me a God of wrath, of judgement, and of anger. My God would never do such things. My God is above that, and is above all religions. Is their a heaven?? I really dont pretend to know... In other words, I'm an agnostic.

Im going to piss off a lot of people by saying this, but I see Evolution as a religion as well. It has insufficient evidence, and has much debated speculation. It offers me no real answer (like where did the big bang come from? what was before it? What was at the beginning?). Evolutionists tend to be just as dogmatic as any Christian, and will laugh at creationism just as Christians laugh at Evolution. I figure there has to be SOMETHING at the begining of everything...something eternal. You can call it what you want, I'll call it God (in whatever language that pleases you).

One good thing though, Evolutionists DO tend to be a lot nicer to a lot more people. I see less prejudice against minorities, and they dont firebomb any clinics....
-----------------------------
TO PRTLEWD:

"On Gods cruelty: Everything dies eventually, painfully or painlessly regardless of good or
bad, so it's not cruelty that makes god kill us. We all have to go to make room for our spawns and not became a burden on them or the society."

Ok fine, since im supposed to follow God's example Ill just head on down to India and start murdering everyone I see. They're so overcrowded... I'll free up plenty of room that way! I assure you I am not meaning any cruelty, I'm just freeing up resources and "burdens" on society.

[Chief Broom]

Look...this is my basic point everybody.

I dont care if your Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Athiest, Agnostic, WHATEVER. As long as you treat EVERYONE nicely, as long as you dont hurt others, as long as you dont tell people they are "going to hell" for their beliefs, and as long as you are not racist, sexist, anti-gay, or prejudiced....I LOVE YOU!! You are a good human being, and a fine citizen.

None of us are going to successfully argue that one way is right, or another is wrong. I just critized Christianity because I see human beings screwing it up (by writing the Bible for instance), and by making a lot of otherwise good people into monsters. Unfortunately, religion is a GREAT tool for murder as well as for love. I hate seeing God used to justify hatred....

Just let others live their lives the way they please...Follow the ideas about liberty and freedom as long as no one is hurt....and we should all be happy! It doesnt really matter if you are religious or not, as long as you are fair, honest, and accepting right?

------------------------------

The arguments in this forum arent changing anybodies mind, and I honestly don't think any of us is getting anything new out of it right??

Why don't we all just agree to post up one final thought, and agree to let this topic die? I'm really getting tired of scrolling down 100 messages to get to an argument we've all heard before. "Can't we all just get along??!" =)

On that note, I'm not posting to this forum anymore. See ya all in another topic!!

[This message has been edited by Chief Broom (edited 06-08-2000).]

[Booyamos]

Good call Chief Broom. I think I will just post my final thoughts and end this topic here.

I agree with most of what Chief said there, in general a lot of religions are good, and as long as they don't go around damning people or preaching I am fine with them. It is all the religions that have all this hate with them that I really don't like, for example christianity and it's hatred towards gays. That is not my personal choice of life style but I have no problem with it, and it sickens me to see people who show up at a homosexual's funeral with anti-gay signs. That is just wrong. I do not think that anyone has the right to judge anyone else's life and what they do with it. But on the topic of god, I am a scientific man, I need evidence and hard core proof to belive things. As of right now I can not find any proof that there is a god, but at the same time I can not prove there isn't, I am still trying to find out. Hopefully there is because if not then life would be sorta pointless. So if any of you like, you can continue on this never ending debate, but it is sorta pointless in my opinion, no one is going to change their minds, and nothing good is going to happen. Anways see ya later.

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~Kacarp~

"Where is your ****** god now?" The mole

[ejimakated]

Despite the short time I have "contributed" to this discussion, I will also make this my last post. I see that Broom and Kacarp echo my sentiments of futility.

However, just a couple of quick things.

First of all, to address the statement that the Bible only portrays the vengeful wrath of God, I believe many Christians would argue by saying that while the Old Testament was indeed chock full of cities being thrashed and populations of people being wiped out, the New Testament (and if you really want to look hard enough, you can ALWAYS find exceptions to everything) tells the story of a "softer" (so to speak), more compassionate God in the human embodiment of Jesus, who preached love of all. Won't bother to go into detail bout that...

Secondly, here's a thought... I think the following two statements are generally agreed upon amongst the participants of this discussion:

(1) We cannot provide satisfactory "evidence" that God exists.
(2) We cannot provide satisfactory "evidence" that God DOESN'T exist.

Given that a person acknowledges these two ideas, both of which hold equal merit, isn't it interesting to note which of them he/she will then choose to accept and live by? One of these will eventually be proven false, and what if, upon our passing, logic reveals itself to be our most tragic human flaw?

Anyway, thanks for the kicks; I hope all your horizons have been expanded...

[renots]

Is it all in Maxwell's Equations?

http://www.biols.susx.ac.uk/home/Joh...me_Travel.html

It works like this. According to one interpretation of quantum physics (there are several interpretations, and nobody knows which one, if any, is "right"), every time a quantum object, such as an electron, is faced with a choice, the world divides to allow it to take every possibility on offer. In the simplest example, the electron may be faced with a wall containing two holes, so that it must go through one hole or the other. The Universe splits so that in one version of reality -- one set of relative dimensions -- it goes through the hole on the left, while in the other it goes through the hole on the right. Pushed to its limits, this interpretation says that the Universe is split into infinitely many copies of itself, variations on a basic theme, in which all possible outcomes of all possible "experiments" must happen somewhere in the "multiverse". [So there is, for example, a Universe in which Al Gore was elected which rapidly devolved into a militaristic police state; talk about the law of unintended consequences]

[eSDee]

Originally posted by Y2J


Also, in the torah, G-D claims that he will send false prophets at us and make sure we are true believers. It seems to me as if the christians fell for it

The most bold of statements in this thread. Be prepared to back that up Y2J.

[sbp]

Ancient thread alert!

[hapoo]

Originally posted by renots
Is it all in Maxwell's Equations?

http://www.biols.susx.ac.uk/home/Joh...me_Travel.html

It works like this. According to one interpretation of quantum physics (there are several interpretations, and nobody knows which one, if any, is "right"), every time a quantum object, such as an electron, is faced with a choice, the world divides to allow it to take every possibility on offer. In the simplest example, the electron may be faced with a wall containing two holes, so that it must go through one hole or the other. The Universe splits so that in one version of reality -- one set of relative dimensions -- it goes through the hole on the left, while in the other it goes through the hole on the right. Pushed to its limits, this interpretation says that the Universe is split into infinitely many copies of itself, variations on a basic theme, in which all possible outcomes of all possible "experiments" must happen somewhere in the "multiverse". [So there is, for example, a Universe in which Al Gore was elected which rapidly devolved into a militaristic police state; talk about the law of unintended consequences]

Anyone else watch Sliders??

[speedracer120]

That show was a trip. Too bad no one else watched it. But it got old after a few seasons anyways.

[fakesurfers]

Why dont you people ask God if it/he/she is real?
Here is the homepage:

http://www.netstore.de/~god/

[welfareloser]

nothing like showing up after the party is already over...

i don't care if there is a god or not. i have no way of knowing. what blows me away is how many people think they do know. if you want to have faith, ie, believe without proof, that's cool - but don't try to "prove" religion. it's just silly. like the whole "christian science" movement. it blows me away. it's an oxymoron, emphasis on the moron. i understand that there may be compelling evidence that the world is younger than we thought, that evolution isn't what we thought it was, blah, blah... but then it always degenerates into "you see! the polonium halos prove that everything happened just like those crusty old farts who wrote the bible said it did!" that's not scientific. science and faith are not irreconcilable, nor do they fit together like jigsaw puzzle pieces. they are apples and dodgeballs. i have yet to see anything approaching the basic scientific method in the realm of "christian science." if you want to believe, believe, do so without guilt, and without the need to try to wrestle matters of faith into the shape of science. it's like trying to fit twenty pounds of shit into a five pound bag.

i choose not to believe in anything, and when i die, i'll see what's what. maybe i'm a brain in a jar, being poked by a big slimy alien... maybe there's a blonde-haired blue-eyed jesus waiting at the end of the lighted tunnel... probably its just more of the same, with a slightly new twist just to keep things fun.

also, there are some smatterings of evidence that after the crucifiction, jesus and his girlfriend escaped, retired on the french riviera, and had some love children, leaving a genetic legacy to the world. wouldn't it be fun to be a descendent of jesus? yes, it would. that beats the hell out of having george washington in your fambly tree, don't it?

[johnnymk]

The Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart that there is no God."
There is one truth and one God. There can not be many truths or many gods. Fortunately, I believe in Jesus who said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". "Anyone who believes in me has Everlasting Life".
Once you die, it will be too late to repent. It's the absolute biggest gamble that a person will take in rejecting Jesus as their Saviour.
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Either you trust him as your Saviour in this life or he will be your Judge on Judgement Day.
"And he will say on that day, Depart from me into Everlasting Darkness, for I never knew you."

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by johnnymk
The Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart that there is no God."
There is one truth and one God. There can not be many truths or many gods. Fortunately, I believe in Jesus who said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". "Anyone who believes in me has Everlasting Life".
Once you die, it will be too late to repent. It's the absolute biggest gamble that a person will take in rejecting Jesus as their Saviour.
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Either you trust him as your Saviour in this life or he will be your Judge on Judgement Day.
"And he will say on that day, Depart from me into Everlasting Darkness, for I never knew you."

hmmm... yep, that is pretty fortunate for you... otherwise, you'd be screwed!