Where are all my liberal brothers and sisters?!?!

[Chief Broom]

Dude, are the people on this board predominately conservative or is it just my paranoia coming out? Where are all my bleeding heart folk?!

I've seen at least 4 or 5 anti-gay comments on the boards in the last month or so...not cool people...not cool!!

[ProMinx]

go back to hippy-town, you hippy; j/k
Pro

[sbp]

Dude, this is quite shocking news. There are no liberals here?

Don't you people know you should be making fun of Christians not homosexuals? Gay jokes are not cool. Christian jokes are very cool.

<font size=1>
<a href="

[This message has been edited by sbp (edited 05-22-2000).]

[colossus]

Hehe, I think all the liberals got shot by Moses and those Damned Apes!

I'm a Republican, but do have liberal stances on some issues. That whole NRA/Charleton Heston thing just pisses me off. I wanna see him in a gunfight versus Al Gore.

By the way, remember when Al Gore used a gun. I think it was 3 weeks after taking office in '93 he went on a vacation, and shot some geese and ducks. Unfortunately, one was listed on the World Wildlife Fund's endangered species list Oh man, that cracks me up! Mr environment killing an endangered species with a gun! Oh heavens!

------------------
Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...

[hapoo]

lol hahaha
you guys crack me up

I consider myself liberal but i have my limits. I wont make any anti-gay jokes but i cant say i approve of the lifestyle.

[ProMinx]

crack? did someone say crack? where is it? j/k
yeah, i'm definitely a republican, but i'm also on the non-NRA side of the gun issue. Guns in the hands of civilians don't make us any safer.
ProMinx

[Chief Broom]

hahaha Al Gore is a closet conservative. I wanted Bill Bradley....
Oh btw, the reason I asked where the liberals were; I assumed that most of the people online were liberal for some reason. Warez, porn, high education (If im not mistaken college educated, and graduate school people tend to be mroe liberal throughout their lifetimes). It's kinda odd to see it the other way. Oh well i guess it's just the political science major in me!!

[ProMinx]

actually, the more education and more one earns (in most cases, these two are parallel) the more likely they are to be a conservative. These are stats that i was told in my high school gov't classes, and they make sense to me. Those with lots of money are the ones most likely to try to protect it, and those people tend to be the conservatives.
ProMinx

[Sjarred]

I agree with ProMinx, for most people money has a pretty strong influence in determining what one believes in, including political views.

[colossus]

Yeah, High education leads to conservativism because you're generally content with the way things are since you've "made it" in the world. If you're bagging groceries at Lucky's and working as a pimp you might be a bit disgruntled with life

The irionic thing is that the IVY LEAGUE schools tend which charge ridiculous tuition and provide some of the snottiest atmospheres around produce liberal graduates. Before I get attacked, this is what I mean. Usually the parent who had to work to make the money is Republican because he/she thinks its possible to succeed with the way the system is. The children of these people see unjustice with American society and decide that they must change things. Funny thing is they spend $160K becoming educated to help the poor

I try to take a pragmatic approach to everything. I think abortion is murder. In med school they teach you a fetus is living, and a woman who endangers her child could be charged. At the same time, I think a woman has the right to choose. Why? If she doesn't want the baby, it won't be cared for, and that will be a problem for the baby, the parent, and all of society. Is it worth hurting a child their entire life because you want to "Save" them?

Another example. Gun control. Well, if the majority of American populace didn't work at Staples and had a clue about what was going on in the world they wouldn't use guns. Sure violence occurs, and always will occur until nobody is envious of anybody. Never happens. The American populace at large in my opinion is just plain stupid as I have seen compared to people in other countries. I personally would like to own a gun and blow off the guys' head who try's to break into MY house. Of course I would go to jail and that would serve no purpose of me being a physician.

Why don't politicians ever just sit down and argue the actual pros and cons anymore. This is how the old civilizations used to do it. I still love this country, and would defend it at almost any cost. I just think a large group of Americans needs to stop learning the latest Budweiser commercial and find out why those things from China are so cheap.

Off soapbox.

------------------
Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...

[Chief Broom]

Yea Minx i guess your right about education=conservatism.... But Collusus is also correct about ivy league schools producing liberals. Actually I've heard countless times that the higher you go up in the education system, the more liberal the professors tend to be. Also, the student body as a whole in higher education tends to be VERY liberal. I guess the conservatism hits after they make their first 100 grand right??

Colossus, you have nice complicated views on the issues....Even if i don't agree with some of them, you gotta appreciate the fact that serious thought was put into them. I've found that most people's views on any of the major issues tend to be simplistic and LOUD.

And you can blame simple stupid politicians on the simple stupid media. TV and all forms of mass media have ****ed up the entire poltical process.

Hopefully one day we'll all realize how to use the television to actually IMPROVE politics. It's funny that TV has been around so long, yet no one really understands the proper ways to use it. Entertainment is a grand thing, but whatever happened to information??!

My turn to step off the soapbox!

[ProMinx]

wow...colossus cetrainly has quite a view on this subject...oh well. My main reason that i am a republican is that I cannot agree with the legality or morality of an abortion, except in extreme cases. I also do support republican (decreased) taxing (probaaly formed because i believe that i'll be fitting in the top tax income bracket sooner or later). Well...that's all i have to say.
ProMinx

[lisu24]

I'm liberal and I'm a lesbian...and I'm Asian and my parents are Republicans. Funny thing is that I went to the most conservative liberal arts college in California...and I discovered my sexuality in college. Silly thing.

[lisu24]

Besides all that, I don't care who you sleep with as long as you don't care who I sleep with. I think that being gay doesn't make you non-human...we have feelings too! I'm liberal but not an extremist. I believe in more gun control! And abortion...I believe in choice even though I couldn't do it.

[colossus]

Thank you Chief Broom! If more people were like you maybe politicians would actually have some issues to discuss.

What is the ultimate goal of any society. To advance, to learn, to raise the level of living of its people. Republican or Democrat, the ultimate goal should be to help people. What school of thought you take on this depends on what your parents think, whether or not you rebel against them, and how much you care.

The reason I'm Republican is I tend to be very conservative in my pragmatic views. I tend to think people today in this country rely on others too much, and that results in a weak social and moral structure.

My parents came to this country with what amount to $100 US dollars in about 1974. My mom worked illegally under somebody else's name. My dad was a full time student and worked in teaching positions. But they both were educated. My mom had a MS, and my dad did his PhD at USC. I went from living in one of the worst areas of the country (South Central LA) to what is known as the most culturly diverse city in the nation and the 2nd richest per household income of any suburban city in the nation 2nd to Beverly Hills (Cerritos, CA). How did we do this? Well, my dad worked his ass off, and still pulls a 60 hour week. My mom took care of me and my sis. Not once did we use any social program. Now my parents have been debt free since 1985 and can easily retire without Social Security.

This does not mean that I don't think poor people need help. Not everybody can be "lucky" like my dad, or have his education level. Maybe they have health problems or a disability. It just seems odd that if a 3rd world country like India or China can produce people like my dad, why do people in this country complain of lack of opportunities. At least we have electricity 24/7 here even in the crappiest of neighborhoods. Back in my dad's hometown they get about 3 hours of electricity a day now, back when he grew up there was none!

Same thing for racism. I understand that people make fun of others and discriminate. Hell, even I discriminate. If I didn't that would mean I would be clueless. But I discriminate by a person's behaviour rather than their looks. That's something growing up in LA teaches you. My dad has been discriminated against tons of times, but he doesn't bitch about it. You just work harder and show that you are better than what others perceive you to be. That's the only way to erase negative impressions of people. Using a qouta in the past was a good idea. The only way an initial change could be made is if it was forced. It's like overcomming the static coefficient of friction for you Physics people. Now that change is occuring, quotas should be removed. If people have really changed and become open to ideas, the quotas serve no purpose other than to polarize and anger people. I am upset because I was kept out of some medical schools simply because my ethnic group is overepresented in the school.

When I see Republican and Democrats argue over something like welfare reform it makes me sick. Both sides have something to gain. Republicans can cut what they think is "wasteful spending". Democrats can make a social program that seem wasteful more efficient. Yet they fight because some representative wants to slip a line in saying his state should get a tobacco subsidy, and another rep wants an oil refinery built at government expenise.

Sad, there are no human altruistic people. There have to be other like me who know they wouldn't be corrupted if they got into office. Hell, I think those Senators should be paid 10x what they get. It's jack squat compared to the latest baseball or NBA deal. One Shaq alone could pay all of Congress's salary. Yet people don't whine when they buy Laker tickets.

Chief, you're right on about education. Probably I say this because as a kid (until age 10) PBS was my favorite channel. The news hour, Nova, 321 Contact, you name it, I watched it. Maybe that's why I'm capable of seeing bias in almost anything.

Knowledge is power. No really it is. You could have all the money in the world, but a somebody who is able to speak to the people and let them know what is going on - that person has control. This was JFK and Ronald Reagan (pre Alzheimer progression).

------------------
Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...

[lisu24]

It would be nice to have less taxes, but the problem with that I see with that is that people who make more money can part with a little bit of it and not have much of a lifestyle change. I know that some countries tax over 90% on people who make over a million a year and that's very extreme. However, those countries also can support everyone on welfare because of this. I think that unemployment benefits are good if that person is honestly trying to get another job, but it's the people who exploit the system and decide that they're never going to work and get by on the government that bother me. I guess that I don't like free-loaders. Unless you're talking about deals. Hehehe. I worked hard for everything that I have today, as did my parents before me and I've been working every day(you know what i mean) of my life since I was around 17, and now I'm 25 and it doesn't look like it's ever going to end. I have a problem with welfare moms who decide to have kids so their welfare checks get bigger. Sometimes the ideas about enforcing birth control (tube tying) on welfare moms just makes sense to me...but who knows, I'm ranting.

[Sjarred]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Knowledge is power. No really it is. You could have all the money in the world, but a somebody who is able to speak to the people and let them know what is going on - that person has control.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with this, and history can probably proved this to be true. Almost all revolutionary leaders of the past had the knowledge and ability to speak to their people.

[This message has been edited by Sjarred (edited 05-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sjarred (edited 05-26-2000).]

[Chief Broom]

I can tell you the problem with welfare in this country. The U.S. is totally half-assing the job, no wonder the system doesn't seem to work. Look at countries in Scandanavia that have a huge social welfare system, look at Canada. My Uncles and Aunts moved to Canada awhile back and when a few of them got really ill, free hospital! Healthcare is totally free...how nice is that?

You either gotta commit yourself to something, or you are going to screw it up...If you half-ass welfare, nobody is going to be happy on either side of the argument. If you pretend to support gay-rights, while at the same time sniffing the air in disdain because you don't approve of the "lifestyle", chances are you are doing more harm than good...People need to grow some spine, and start to work on the real problems in society.

I honestly could care less what your political orientation is. If you are truly interested in helping the sick and poor, and if you really have some potentially effective plans...then great!! It just so happens that i see this FAR more often in liberals, which is why I my heart bleeds like a stuck pig. I have seen some conservatives who have similar ideas though, and I've always liked 'em.

Politicians half-ass everything they do. It's all about accomodating this, and appeasing that. Man grow a spine and DO something!! If you claim that you are for all the people (which every politician does), then you better support all of them as well! That should be regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

Instead what does America have for a political system...We have a Justice system that discriminates against people of color (Rampart anyone?) as well as a system that treats gay men and lesbians as if they were second-class citizens. We have an incredible amount of homelessness...right next to huge corporate office buildings. And we have a totally corrupted welfare state which completely undermines the possibility that this country might actually do as promised and support every walk of life within its borders.

Everyone needs to stop talking about doing something, and go out and actually walk the walk.

okay...im getting off my soapbox now haha...

[colossus]

Chief brought up a good point that I thought I was the only one who had this idea. Politicians are always trying to avoid stepping on feet. The reason our government is so stable is because we have this system of "Check and Balances" that keeps legislature from going to one extreme or another.

I'm wondering in this day and age, where America thinks democracy is the only way to rule, if there would be any objection to one party ruling for a while. Half ass is the proper way to describe the way the government is working. It was good for 200 years when the nation was starting and people were unstable. I think it's time for a change. One party should be allowed to set all the legislation. This may sound crazy, but it would definitely accomplish the ultimate goal.

Either that has to happen or the parties have to stop following their beliefs regardless of how unpractical they are and support bipartisanship which promotes useful, meaningful legislation.

This is why I would rather see a PhD in engineering and a physician and a Home Depot employee elected to Congress over 3 lawyers who know how to enlarge egos, gain political clout, and entrench their position for a lifetime of power.

Maybe when I get sick of HMOs I'll decide to run for Congress or something 10 years down the line. I guess I would be a reform party candidate hehe.

------------------
Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...

[Chief Broom]

Well actually there might be a more fair answer to the problem colossus, because there is now way we could legitimately choose one party to do the controlling.

The problem is that we have a 2 party system, and that we have elections that make sure that this is the only viable system. No one wants to vote for a third party because it is "throwing away a vote." What if we had a system based on proportional representation instead? If you allow a State like California to have 50 representatives, and 10 percent of the total vote goes to a fringe party, then 5 of the representatives should come from that party.

This way the parties wouldnt all be aiming for the center, there would be a far bigger chance of winning for the third parties. Consequently, more rightist and leftist views will be expressed in public. Maybe we could actually talk about issues from different perspectives for once!

[Sjarred]

Time for a proportional electorial system

[Sjarred]

Let's bring on the petition!!!!

[colossus]

Time for a flat tax rate. This would help the people who need it the most - literally.

If you TRULY don't have a lot of money to spend, then you're not getting "taxed" as they say. If you're a rich fat cat, you're only penalized if you behave like one. How can anybody other than H&R block and all those useless accountants object to this?

They're the only reason the Tax code isn't reformed. It would seem like a simple thing to do huh? A simple solution right? Well, it would be. Unfortunately the people in office have no brains and are swayed by lobbyists for accountants.

You could pretty much do away with the IRS if there was a flat tax.

------------------
Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...

[revil]

I think we should start a petition to outlaw idiots in the us govt.

[bNorrish]

Nobody here that I can find has admitted to being a democtat... whats the deal? Gore ain't that stupid is he?

[bNorrish]

sorry, I meant democrat... darn non ergonomic keyboard...

[lisu24]

I'm a democrat, for lack of a better party. Hey, I'm an useless accountant...

Oh wait, I'm just a credit card fraud accountant...I don't do taxes...heheh.

[Chief Broom]

I'm a Democrat...too bad Gore isnt!! Dude he had Pete Knight (also known as SATAN...the man is a bastard homophobe "christian") on his staff for over a decade. The man is only called an environmentalist because his PERSONALITY resembles a tree. Gore is a total closet Republican..what happened to the good old liberal democrats of the past???!

I voted for Bill Bradley, too bad no one else did (apparently). But despite all this I'm forced to vote for either a Dem. or a Republican (since we dont have proportional representation...haha we wont go into that again). I would lick up pig vomit before voting for George "pull the switch" Bush Jr., so Gore it is!!

[lisu24]

Gore sucks. I voted for Bradley. But there's no way I'm voting for Bush. I don't want the religious right controlling my life.

[colossus]

Hey, Republicans don't want Gore either. The guy is a Shmuck! If you read my thing on his proposed modem tax and now his push for technology yet at the same time saying he's Mr. Tree Hugger, you'll see he as MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder). Funny I should say this since the guy has no personality.

I wouldn't mind Bill Bradley in office. He seems to have some agenda and goals rather than theories like Gore.

Give Bush a chance guys. He's much more central than you would imagine. This is why many minorities are considering voting for Bush over Gore. I don't think Bush has open the backing of the Religious right who I don't care to see Lobby either.

------------------
Ço£o§§ü§ - yeah you can read into it...