NSS: My mini reef is at finally begun!

[ufcrusher]

I have a mini reef that I am setting up in a ten gallon tank (hence MINI reef). I built a stand, ordered in a bunch of parts, and finally got the tank set up. I picked up a nice large branch of Tonga rock. (For those who dont know, Tonga branch is considered to be one of the top types of live rock and is typically the only thing I will use, but has become exceedingly expensive in the past decade.)




Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, the rock is not cured which means that it was just collected. On the good side, you get more wild critters this way (such as snails, shrimps, crabs, sponges, coral, etc. - I have only found some macro algae and a snail.) On the bad side, there is always die off from the stuff being collected. This leads to spikes in amonia, nitrates, nitrites, messes with your Ph, and can kill fish.

Personally, I prefer non cured rock as I have gotten tons of starfish, anenomes, crabs, shrimp, snails, limpets, cowries, and other critters. Then again, I used to order the stuff in bulk from the distributor...this time Iit went through 2 people before I received it. (Wholesaler and retailer)

As you can see, its a large piece but I may add a few other branches later. In two weeks or so, I can add fish and corals. As it progresses I will post more pics.

[TofuNinja]

nice, salt water tanks take time, keep us updated. Are you going to get Clown Fish and Tangs?

[ufcrusher]

I've had about 10 salt water tanks previously including 4 reefs. That said, the smallest reef I have done until now is a 20 or 29 gallon, which is a huge difference.

Since its such a small tank it will probably be populated by some cardinal fish (my wife wants them for some reason), percula clown and its host anenome, a small tang and some damsels. Toss in some cleaner shrimps and whatever corals I feel like having and that will be the tank.

The traditional rule of 1" fish per gallon of water (which I have always flouted) works out to about 3 or 4 fish depending on size. In my favor is the live rock and the filtration I am using. The filter is rated for a 50 gallon and moves the tank 20 times per hour. Between my biological, chemical and mechanical filtration I will be able to push the fish load a bit.

I figure cardinal fish are about 1" - 2" each and should be kept in a school. A small percula or clarki clown will be about 1 or 2" also. A small yellow tang can be found in the 1" or 2" size range. Damsels the same thing. I probably am going to have to figure out my fish shortly, but I am not worried about it yet.

[eSDee]

very cool!

[TofuNinja]

So how did you all learn or go about creating your salt water tanks. I have read some stuff online, but yeah.... I rather learn or get the facts from someone who has done it.

[kimchicowboy]

how much do you plan to initially spend on a 10 gallon tank? and how much are monthly maintenance costs? sounds like a cool hobby i may want to take up in the future. i wish i could have a huge ocean of my own and play with a manta rey.

[TofuNinja]

from what I know it is a costly hobby. I know the Skimmers are expensive and you really need to keep on top of the water testing. I also heard that the bigger the tank it is a bit easier.

Someone told me to start with a Fresh Water to get into the habit of having a tank because it sucks losing fish either way, but with a salt tank your fish are like 20 bucks and up unless you have a good store near you.

But yeah it does look like a sweet hobby and the fish are damn nice.

Besides the 1" of fish per gallon rule I also heard that if one Fish is big enough to fit into another fish's mouth..... it will end up there

[ufcrusher]

I have been actively keeping tanks for over 25 years. I had my first salt tank when I was 12 and have with the exception of the past few years always had multiple tanks going. Everyone always says that the cost of setting up a salt water tank is exponentially higher than a fresh water. I have not really found that to be true, but it all depends on what/where you are buying from.

For example, there is an adage that tanks should not cost more than $1/gallon for larger tanks and anything less than a 20 was discounted to encourage beginners. Unfortunately when you go to any chain store they definitely break this rule. Petco has a 10 gallon for $10-12.....I used to pay $2 per 10 gallon tank on the east coast and picked up this 10 for $6 out here. I can still get a 40 for $40 at another location by me but that is the benefit of a really nice owner with a great store. (Ron at Octopus Gardens off of Convoy near Dream Girls )

As for other equipment, it all depends on what you want to set up.
A "basic" salt water set up can be a power filter, heater, hood, flourescent light with full spectrum or actinic blue bulb, and tank. Such a setup will work for fish only tanks fine....you may even be able to get an anenome or two in there or if its a really shallow tank some hardier corals. (Remember depth of water refracts light effect the quality and quantity getting to the animals. This is why when you dive at depth there is the blue tint as the red is removed from the spectrum.)

A reef type set up will include either VHO's, Power Compacts, or Metal Halides as your light source. These all put out greater amounts of light for the benefit of the corals/inverts. For filtration, there are a myriad of ways to filter your system. Most people include a sump type system (wet dry or just mechanical in a sump) you put a protein skimmer in the sump. The benefit of sump filtration is added water volume to the tank. However, you can find HOB skimmers and just have a power filter.

Then there are the test kits, hydrometers, and additives when doing a full reef set up. I normally buy most things online and save a ton of money. For example. I picked up my Saltwater master kit for $13...the stores sell it for $30! Hydrometer $6...stores $13. My filter $22...store $50. The list goes on. I spent a little over $100 online and it would have cost me $200+ at the local stores. I have found that spending a little more at a local store can pay dividends when you have issues later on. Such as a ballast breaking....your local guy can lend you one but a online store couldnt.

I am sure that is more than what you wanted to know.

[SolidSnake]

Pretty Cool Mini reef, so how do you plan on maintaining the tank water healthy for your critters?

[ufcrusher]

Not really sure what you are asking about. How am I going to maintain my water?

The key to any fish tank is doing weekly partial water changes. Depending on the tank you are supposed to do a 10 - 20% water change per week. On top of that you test your water. A fully cycled tank will have NO detectable Ammonia, Nitrites, or Nitrates. You also check that your Ph is at the right level. When I start putting my corals in I will also have to check for copper and if I want I can check trace elements.

Obviously, larger tanks are easier to maintain. Think about the ocean...you take a leak in the ocean and what effect is there? Other than a warm spot for a few minutes none....the increased Ph/heat/urine are in such a small amount that they dont effect anything. Now think about a kids wading pool.....for some reason you are a degenerate and a drunk and dont want to get up to go to the bathroom. As you sit there sighing in relief you suddenly notice that the entire pool is suddenly getting noticeably warmer and starting to smell. Your buddy looks at you, calls you an arse and runs to the shower to get your urine off him. Obviously size matters when keeping things in homostasis. Thus, beginners are told that they should get the largest tank they can fit and afford. Their errors will be less noticeable then and the animals will be better for it.

FYI, another critter has made itself known today....a worm. :sigh: At least its not a mantis shrimp or anything harmful.

[TofuNinja]

coo, thanx for the advice

[ufcrusher]

Today I added live sand to the system so its not a bare bottom anymore. Normally I dont mind a bare bottom (especially when shes cute) but with this system it looked a bit plain. Unless people want me to post it, I wont bother.

[kimchicowboy]

post pics please.

[TofuNinja]

post it

[doolittle]

nice i used to have some salt tanks, never did a reef tank though, the lighting isent cheap.

[ufcrusher]

Ye asked, ye received:
Here is the tank with the sand in it:


Here is my Blue Legged Hermit Crab -- completely safe and nice looking...although mine has an old shell.


Here is his Mexican cousin, the Mexican Hermit Crab -- no joke, they work harder and faster than other species of Hermits....but they will eat snails and other critters they find.


You can see some of the growth on the live rock in the close ups. Today I also added a Nassarius snail, which immediately buried itself in the sand. (No picture unless you want to see sand.)

Tested for the first time today......definitely starting to cycle. But I think I may try to speed things up a bit.

FYI, sorry for the low res shots, in an effort to save bandwidth I only upload smaller pics. I have higher res of all the shots with much more detail if anyone really wants to see it.

[kimchicowboy]

keep us posted with fish and stuff

[TofuNinja]

nice, do your hermit crabs have names?

[doolittle]

i noticed your using one of those bio wheel filters, ive never seen anyone use one of those on a salt tank. did you add some special media or?

[ufcrusher]

i noticed your using one of those bio wheel filters, ive never seen anyone use one of those on a salt tank. did you add some special media or?

Nope, no special media. These bio wheel filters were originally designed for salt aquariums. When the original Biowheel 330 came out in the late 80's/early 90's I picked them up and have always loved them. On those units they had media baskets which I addd true bioballs. (I havent seen the original bioballs in many many years, now they call these giant blue plastic balls bio balls. The original were in a gauze pouch so that the balls, the size of what original bean bags were stuffed with, stayed debris free.)

These new units, including the one I have, just hit the market in the last month. Unfortunately, they no longer have the media basket included with the 330 (now 350). The bio wheel provides additional area for the nitrofying bacteria to grow and lots of people include them on their tanks.

[ufcrusher]

On Friday night, I was looking in my tank and found to my surprise that one of my hermits had gone through a complete molt. Hermits, like other invertebrates, depend on their exoskeleton for support. As they grow, the hard exoskeleton stays the same size and so they develop a new exoskeleton underneath. The new exo is soft until a few hours or days after they shed the old exterior. Additionally, as they grow they need larger shells to move into. In the wild there are tons of empty shells to be found or they simply find the new home of their dreams and hijack it from the current inhabitant, either by killing and eating the other animal or by fighting with another crab.

In the aquarium, the only other shells are the ones that you put into the system. This means either other hermits, snails, or for those who think ahead, the empty shells you provide.

Once I saw that one had molted, I realized that I had better put shells in their in a heart beat or I would have a civil war in my tank. I ended up heading down to a couple of local stores and picked up some shells as well as few starter fish.

(The tank has fully cycled in less than a week thanks to my advanced cycling methods. -- yes, after 19+ years with salts and reef tanks, I can toot my own horn.)

The starter fish in this case are 3 damsels. One tribar damsel, one yellow tail damsel, and one blue. I am probably going to add another yellow tail or two tonight as he is getting bullied by the other two damsels, but we shall see.

[Airencracken]

Pics! We want pics!

[TofuNinja]

pics pics pics

[ufcrusher]

Here are some pics. Unfortunately, my fish are faster than my camera...but here you go:

This is the Three Stripe Damsel and the Yellow tail blue damsel:


This is a full tank shot...you can see two of the fish in it:


Here is the Blue Damsel:


These are the starter fish so in a bit they will be changed out.

[Airencracken]

Nice lookin!

[TofuNinja]

sweet tank dude

[BigJon]

Nice. We just came across a 10 gallon tank kit with a stand, filters, heater, and all the fixins'. We're going freshwater tropical though.

The mini reef looks way cool though!

[verve247]

So what do you do to the starter fish when your done with them? Chuck them into the pacific??

[doolittle]

those damsels are pretty agreesive, i once knew a lady thats all she had were damsels in her tank, i guess its a real cheap way to have a salt tank and its allmost trouble free, due to the fact they are so hardy. i usually took my damsels back to the petstore before they ate the good fish.

[ufcrusher]

Typically in my larger set ups my damsels stayed in the tank as I added more critters. Depending on the species, some damsels are much more aggressive than others. Yellow tails are mellow fish.......the other two are much more aggressive. You can have as many of the "chromis" damsels in a tank as you want as they are docile and wont touch a thing.

As for what to do with the damsels.....I havent decided yet. I may just set them up in another tank or trade them in. It takes up to 6 weeks for the full biological to be setup correctly. Thus, they will probably be the only fish in there for at least a month. At least they are colorful and move around.

I actually have an issue with the tank that I need to get under control today. The store where I got these fed them a specific food that I have never used. Traditionally, you ween them off the food that they were eating and onto what you would prefer to feed. Unfortunately, the guy at the store must have been an idiot as these fish arent capable of eating what he is claiming they fed them. Creates one hell of a problem in a tank this size.