ski's First Car Purchase - Part 1: Narrow down which to look at

[ski]

Wow, my first car purchase. I am looking to buy one by the end of the year, and sadly, my current Dodge Caravan will crap out before I can buy this car in cash (financing questions later ).

Here's my current list with the engine and other features in detail:
The 15 candidates

To sum up the candidates, from cheapest invoice to highest:
Honda Accord DX
Scion tC
Toyota Corolla XRS
Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
Toyota Camry Standard
Mazda 6i
Nissan Altima 2.5S
Acura RSX
Toyota Camry LE V6
Mazda 6s
Nissan Altima 3.5SE
Honda Accord LX
Acura RSX Type-S
Volvo S40 2.4i
Subaru WRX

What I'm looking for is:
The best price to performance ratio
Decent gas mileage

I kinda care about:
ABS, Traction Control, etc.
Side airbags

Don't care about:
Leather
Sunroof

First of all, am I missing any $16k to $24k small to midsize foreign cars with pep in this list?

Second of all, what would you recommend? I'd like to narrow it down to 5ish, so I don't have to spend 10 days test driving

[Showtime]

Civic SI.

-j

[bachviet]

Wait for the new Civic SI coupe to come out.

[Cubsfan]

I've been looking for something similar, although pretty much just a midsize family sedan.

Currently, I'm thinking Altima. I drove he Camry, Accord, Altima, and Mazda6, and the Altima is my favorite right now.

You've got a huge range in prices there, did you want to narrow it down a little? For instance, you have the Accord DX on the list. Big difference between that and the Accord LX V6. (In fact, the dealership that I visited doesn't even get any DX's in). Do you mind having a smaller car with more features, or a larger car with less features?

Anyway, my impressions of the cars I've driven:
Camry --> Not very Sporty, kind of boring. Not a bad value.

Mazda6 --> Felt small and cheap to me personally. The Mazda3 felt better, but it was a bit too small for me.

Accord --> Nothing wrong with it, it was just kind of boring. Felt like a well-made car, nothing flashy.

Altima --> My favorite of the bunch. It was roomier than the 6 and the accord, more power than the Camry, and overall I liked the looks of it better. Both engines seemed to have enough power for me.

If I remember correctly, you work for a big company. Check to see if you get any special discounts for any of these manufacturers. I think with some of my plans I get cars under invoice.

[attgig]

HYUNDAI SONATA! most reliable car according to consumer reports. And with the new model/engine...definitely more pep for the buck.

[ski]

Wait for the new Civic SI coupe to come out.

Is the 2006 Si a new design? I don't like the egg-looking hatchback shape of this gen's...

HYUNDAI SONATA! most reliable car according to consumer reports. And with the new model/engine...definitely more pep for the buck.

Is the 2006 going to be the one everyone talks about (there was a thread on here many moons ago about the next-gen Sonata)

[Merlin]

With all the American cars on that list it is hard to choose.


But seriously, if it were me I would choose one of the last two listed the Volvo or the WRX. The Volvo and the Acura are probably the "classiest" two on the list.

[InfiniteNothing]

Civic SI.

-j

I think the RSX is really much more car for they money not to mention you have less of that "rice boy" reputation.

My top pic on the list is the Mazda 6.
Runner up is the WRX.

[bachviet]

Is the 2006 Si a new design? I don't like the egg-looking hatchback shape of this gen's...


...

2006 Civic SI (from www.edmunds.com)

[Showtime]

I think the RSX is really much more car for they money not to mention you have less of that "rice boy" reputation.

My top pic on the list is the Mazda 6.
Runner up is the WRX.

Read his list. The new civic si is the clear winner if you go by his list of wants. I think he'll be able to get one soon if demand doesn't raise the price.
Plus he gets a reliable car and high resale.

-j

[SecretIkon]

IMO, i think the best price for performance would be the RSX type-s. It has great performance, great interior design, its a sport luxary car and gas milage isn't to bad. You wouldn't go wrong with this car.

But if you can hold off and wait for the new Civic Si...I would take that.

thats just my .02.

[ski]

Thanks bachviet... if that "90% of what you see here will go into the production" is true, that is my top candidate.

I would much rather have a sedan than a coupe, and with practically the same engine as the RSX Type-S (and cheaper, don't need leather), it will be a winner. I would be buying sometime December-March (8-11 months), so I guess I'll have to wait on pricing.

[baggio248]

I just bought a 05 Accord EX. It's a great car. The one thing I hate is that everyone and their mom has one. There's really no way to differentiate it from anyone elses. I'm sure i'll think of something though. For the price I couldn't go wrong, I got it for below invoice.

[AlpineJay]

My girlfriend who's our year (you're a senior in college, right? me too) is also shopping with a similar budget and a darned similar list (mostly because I'm being pretty influential on it). So we've been test driving cars nonstop and drove the Mazda 6, Honda Accord/Civic, Scion tC, Sentra, Altima, S40, the RSX, and the Camry.

I really do like the Acura RSX - not the Type-S, although if you're into a lot of power and manual transmission which my girlfriend is not *sigh*. It comes with a lot of standard amenities - in fact, there's nothing you can "add on" as options in the vehicle... It was overall a pleasure to drive/ride on. The gas mileage is claimed around 30 mixed, and I can see that as the engine is a 2.0L DOHC.

I am also biased towards the Volvo, which adds the bonus of free scheduled maintenance for the first three years of ownership. My family and I have owned and driven many Volvos and we really enjoy the safety aspects of it and the practicality. The S40 is a great car and likely will be atop my list of cars when I buy one in the next two years or so.

That being said, the Sonata, both new and old, will fall right in your price range and I have to recommend it. It's extremely reliable (the older version at least) and the new one is supposed to have improved exterior and interior as well as to have an engine that's actually respectable in class (3.3L, 238hp I believe are the figures). I have told my girlfriend to wait to test drive and look at the new Sonata before she makes up her mind. My local dealership in Massachusetts gave us a mid-June timeline.

Good luck, though. They're all good cars and I'm sure you can't do much wrong.

[civicdidex]

tC is your best price/performance ratio. it comes with crazy options [knee level airbag!], i think i read 42 in all. not much cargo room [stealth bazooka sub], but the rear seats recline. long wheelbase keeps the ride stable and 10"+ brakes are sweet. only prob is that it will get no love from TRD since there is no tC in japan. i plan to get one of these in a few months.

[AlpineJay]

In my opinion, though, the tC was just plain boring to drive. Nothing exciting about the car except its looks. I also think that it's overpriced for the features and the car it gives you - because the car carries the Scion marque and the Toyota background.

Nice car, but not the best price/perf ratio as it's a plain ol' Toyota to drive.

[verve247]

I recommend the Nissan spec V. Nice torque heavy car and a great suspension makes it a fun ride. Damn cheap too and it has all the features your looking for. MPG is mid twenties which isnt bad either. Nissan's seem to be reliable. My SE-R is at 44k miles and haven't had a problem. Few people have the spec V too so you are not another camry or honda on the road either.

[sizemic1]

You could also get a Chrysler 300, Neon SRT-4, Jetta, and a Passat for < 25k. All of which I would at least check out. I've driven that Neon and it's kinda fun. I opted against cuz i'm a little too old to drive a car with a wing Also, there's a new body style coming out for the Jetta and Passat so you may be able to get a pretty good deal on a 2005 towards the middle of summer.

For Myself:

NO - Honda Accord DX
Yes - Scion tC
NO - Toyota Corolla XRS
NO - Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
NO - Toyota Camry Standard
Yes - Mazda 6i
NO - Nissan Altima 2.5S
NO - Acura RSX
NO - Toyota Camry LE V6
Yes - Mazda 6s
Yes - Nissan Altima 3.5SE
Yes - Honda Accord LX
NO - Acura RSX Type-S
Yes - Volvo S40 2.4i
Yes - Subaru WRX

[Eugene]

What ab mazda3? u can get the sedan w/the 5door engine (the ~160hp one).

Or how ab the VW GTI, Cooper Mini, Lancer Ralliart (the one w/the okay engine..not just the body kit one), Ford Focus (supposed to be fun to drive).

As for price/performance, u can't beat the srt-4...no way the tC gets anywhere close. The extra kick the srt-4 would give u is well worth the +4k on invoice.

[InfiniteNothing]

2006 Civic SI (from www.edmunds.com)

That's a bigger bump in HP than I expected. Def consideration worthy.

[civicdidex]

160hp and 163tq/for $16000. id say thats the best perf/price ratio. xrs is good too, but the tC looks better imo. spec v is nice too, i didnt notice that one on the list.

i've never been to VA or anywhere near there, so im not sure if it snows there or has a lot of unpaved roads. WRX is a good pick for these situations, but for flat/paved roads, it isnt necessary. also i wouldnt pick the volvo because any maintenance or repairs will cost at least double of any of the others listed.

[Bires]

I recommend the Nissan spec V. Nice torque heavy car and a great suspension makes it a fun ride. Damn cheap too and it has all the features your looking for. MPG is mid twenties which isnt bad either. Nissan's seem to be reliable. My SE-R is at 44k miles and haven't had a problem. Few people have the spec V too so you are not another camry or honda on the road either.

I recommend AGAINST the SpecV. I bought one new this time last year. I traded it in for a Civic EX.

It is cheap...BUT...
The car has TOO MUCH torque. On a wet road, you will actually spin your tire so much that you will move backward for a second or two.

MPG is not in the mid 20's..more like 22. Most I got was 24 on the freeway and in-town expect 21. It has a 2.5L engine, way too much for a car that light.

The manual tranny (parts from the much heavier Maxima) feels like a stick in a bag of rocks, even with Redline in the gearbox. Also, you cannot shift from 4-->5-->6 w/o staying in 5 at least two-three seconds to let the synchos engage. I was frequently locked out of 6th entering the freeway.

This car is plagued by road noise, especially from the A-pillars.

The ride is WAY TOO TIGHT. Sport suspension on a car that light is like having no springs at all. You will feel EVERYTHING on the freeway.

Finally, I had a low tire (not a FLAT tire) and it threw off my alignment. Bad build quality. Very bad build quality.

But, again...it's cheap.


................................................................................
On the positive side of things...

Out of those you listed, I recommend the Accord but EX or the 6i.

[Airencracken]

Um...prius?

[palayah8ta]

You could also get a Chrysler 300...
....
Yes - Scion tC
NO - Toyota Corolla XRS
Yes - Volvo S40 2.4i
Yes - Subaru WRX

Chrysler 300 is PIMPIN!

Heres a question u know u can get like a used Acura TL or something nice thats got a few miles on it but still under warranty.
If i was in your shoes, id take a 03 /04 mitsubishi EVO. mmmm EVo. its got 4 doors, room, and speed like no other.

[verve247]

I recommend AGAINST the SpecV. I bought one new this time last year. I traded it in for a Civic EX.

It is cheap...BUT...
The car has TOO MUCH torque. On a wet road, you will actually spin your tire so much that you will move backward for a second or two.

MPG is not in the mid 20's..more like 22. Most I got was 24 on the freeway and in-town expect 21. It has a 2.5L engine, way too much for a car that light.

The manual tranny (parts from the much heavier Maxima) feels like a stick in a bag of rocks, even with Redline in the gearbox. Also, you cannot shift from 4-->5-->6 w/o staying in 5 at least two-three seconds to let the synchos engage. I was frequently locked out of 6th entering the freeway.

This car is plagued by road noise, especially from the A-pillars.

The ride is WAY TOO TIGHT. Sport suspension on a car that light is like having no springs at all. You will feel EVERYTHING on the freeway.

Finally, I had a low tire (not a FLAT tire) and it threw off my alignment. Bad build quality. Very bad build quality.

But, again...it's cheap.


................................................................................
On the positive side of things...

Out of those you listed, I recommend the Accord but EX or the 6i.

Woah, completely different experiences. I love the high torque, especially for quick acceleration and passing. While it takes effort to prevent spin when leaving from a rest position during the rain, the traction and road-handling is superb. I'll admit, my gas mileage didnt improve until 25k for some reason. Before that it was 24, but now is up to 27. I can't mention on the shifting since i got the SE-R in automatic which also has slightly looser suspension(still better than the base). The ride does feel quite smooth and quiet. I've been traveling at 85mph before and be asked to speed up because it feels like 65. You might want to test-drive this one.

[ufcrusher]

First of all - DO NOT RELY ON CONSUMER REPORTS!!! This has been said time and time again, but some people still fail to understand how CR works and why their results are completely skewed and unreliable.

For those who have not been informed, I will quickly sum up why CR is worthless and has such skewed results. In order to determine the reliability of they send our mailers to all of their subscribers and ask them if they own the product. If they do, they ask them to rate the reliability and if they have had any problems. If they send out 400,000 surveys and only 400 people own that car and only 3% of those people respond, their opinon is based on 12 people! Not exactly a true representative sample. On top of that, they ask question such as have you experienced any serious issues with your car? Unfortunately they dont define the terms and leave it to the responding party to interpret what serious is.

The problem with this method is that loyal owners dont want to disparage the products and dont report properly. With cars, typically the japanese cars get top ratings no matter how many things go wrong. In fact, an article that I read by a relatively impartial source (in this instance a car magazine who after having many many problems with their test vehicles were surprised to see CR give the same vehicle its best marks and started looking into how the cars were rated), the magazine contacted some of those who responded and discovered that in one instance, although a car had been in the shop 20 times since an owner bought it, he gave it top marks. Why? Because most of the repairs had been done at no charge, the dealership was nice to him, and they immediately notified him about a recall issue. [so simply because he was happy with the outcome, he "forgot" that there was a problem.]

Here is a link to an article which points out some things (*note - this is not the original article(s) I have read but a similar article and thus would be useful here)

So....now that you get rid of the misconception that consumer reports is not a holy grail to take at face value, you can use it for what its worth to you for information.

As for cars, you may feel that right now in your life you dont need to have many things but let me be the bearer of bad news. Life changes....quickly. Yep, I said it. For example, will your job require you to have clients in your car? If so, then the smart money is to spend a bit more to have a nicer car as it will pay dividends in terms of first impresions. Plus, you would want to have a sedan rather than a coupe as its easier to get in and out of then.

If you are planning on having kids....well then, once again...the coupe is gone.

If you are a professional, well then.....appearance does matter. Driving to work in a cheaper car looks badly to clients as they want you to be doing better than them. It screams success.

I dont mean to tell you that you need to go out and buy a $35K+ car. There are plenty of less expensive cars that are nice and dont make you look like a college kid or younger. For example, Honda - go for an Accord hybrid rather than a civic. Acura, while the RSX is a fun sporty car (more so with the type-s) BUT its a coupe and conveys the sense of youth. (If you are working in a marketing firm where being in touch with youth is considered to be a benefit...well then, its perfect. However, if you are working at a Fortune 500 company routinely meeting with clients where they see your car, suddenly its bad.) Going with the TL (which is actually a European spec Accord) is a bit more adult.

Here are a few real life examples that I know of: Friend of mine who is also an attorney has owned and driven a 1991 Toyota truck ever since we met in law school. Since its old, its been beaten to hell and well worn. Unfortunately, as law school was expensive, he was unable to buy a new car until he had a job. For an interview he borrowed his mothers car, which was a new fully loaded Jetta if memory serves, and drove it to the interview. In the lot several members saw what he was driving and said commented on it. He had his interview and successfully managed to get hired on a probationary period which is somewhat standard in firms. Since his mother barely used her car, he was borrowing it on most days to go into the office. Unfortunately, there was several days where he had to drive his truck into the office. One of the members saw what he was driving and actually talked with him about it being inappropriate. The member thought that pickups were bad enough to be seen in, let alone one in that condition. My friend explained that was his only transportation and he had been borrowing the other car for the time being. At that point, the member told him that he better start car shopping that coming weekend and to please not park the truck in the front of the lot where clients may see him getting into it. (FYI, he still has his truck...but only because it wasnt worth anything when he made the deal on his new jag.)

I had a similar instance where I had to leave my car in the shop for the day and had to decide between renting a car or borrowing one from a family member. I chose to borrow the car, which was already 15 years old at the time and beaten to hell. Figuring that I knew I wouldnt be seeing any clients that day I wasnt worried about driving it for the day. It just so happened that my boss happened to notice me pulling into work that day and called me into his office.
BL"I'm not trying to be rude here, but I just happened to see you pull up in what I would nicely call a beater car. I thought you drove a new Mustang."
UFC: "My car was in the shop for the day and I borrowed that car for the day."
B: "You arent seeing any clients today or going anywhere on business for me, right?"
UFC: "Not unless something unexpected comes up."
B: "Well thats good, because I wouldnt have let you go in that thing."

And before you think this is only with attorneys....I know several real estate sales people who have had similar issues. Almost any profession where your car will be seen by your clients.

You should also recognize that if you go up the corporate ladder you may find that this becomes an issue while its not currently one.

[sizemic1]

I second the TL! I love mine.
Classy and fun to drive.
However it's not exactly in the <25k range.

[civicdidex]

^^ neither is an evo

[Eugene]

wow.... i'm glad i don't have to talk to any clients. just thinking about that gives me wierd chills... it's amazing how superficial we all can be.

civicdidex, an evo MIGHT be in the 20k range, if you buy used... i know someone selling an S2000 for 20k (it's a 2000 model). I consider that high for the car and year, so it's not too unlikely to find a similarly priced car (evo, sti, s2k, etc) in the 20k range. Possibly with the TL too, which is such a sweet looking car!!! I'd LOVE a white one, with a good suspension kit (like the A-spec or similar aftermarket), gunmetal/black wheels and red smoked tail lights.... I'm usually not into rice, but for some reason, that would be simply amazing.

[Airencracken]

In honor of his return...

Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer Bimmer