If you had the opportunity to form a Union with the people in your place of work and gaining all the benefits that come with collective bargaining, how would you vote?
Feel free to explain or comment (or not to explain or comment) on why you'd vote the way you would.
I'd vote no, for the following reasons...
A) I work at a church. Though I'd like the idea of more standardized wages for youth pastors, I hardly think a union is the way to go about it.
B) I'm a free-market kinda guy.
C) Unions generally suck now and cause all sorts of problems.
D) I say no to Unions everytime I think of the whiny pro-Union guys who were in half of my classes as an undergrad. id est...
~"That's because there weren't unions back then..."
~"If they were unionized, that wouldn't be a problem."
~"I don't care if they voted against the union, they don't know what's good for them."
~"Workers grouping together is good. Employers grouping together is bad."
E) Unions don't protect workers. Unions protect the people who are in them at the expense of anyone else, even other (gasp!) workers.
I should note. I'm not hating on you, these are just my opinions and won't change to seem nicer to you.
I really do have nothing but respect for you and your beliefs, even though I think they're generally wrong.
Also, I really think this should be in the Political Forum.
Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing
isn't this a complete repeat of a thread from a few months back?
Most of the time I'm against Unions.
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Nope. I like the freedom to negotiate my own deal with my boss. There is no way a union could do a better job of that for me.
My company has one for clerical positions. It has been my impression that they negotiate for and "protect" the lowest common denominator at the expense of the brightest and hardest working.
Agreed
Yeah, kind of like if students were unionized, everyone would get a C, no matter how hard they worked (or how lazy they were.) Kind of removes the incentive to achieve.
Yes because if I was the one forming the union I have a good chance of being the leader. Then I can become corrupt and embezzel union dues and work out side deals with management.
Disclaimer - The above opinion should not be taken as medical advise. My only advise is to talk to your doctor. If you are stupid enough to take anything I say seriously, you have nobody to blame for your cranio-anal inversion but your stupid self.
I may not be smart enough to do everything but I am dumb enough to try anything. - Beastboy.
graduate students take it up the butt and really need a union.
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If you believe in free markets and that the market for labor is efficient, which I do, then there really is no need for unions. Back in the day, sure. But now labor law is pretty clear and people have many more options. If they don't like their job or feel that they are underpaid they can go somewhere else.
:monkey:
so the jobs where the people are mistreated still exist and still get filled. somebody works them. the worst jobs get worked by the dumbest, slowest, least educated among us. the lowest echelon of society. our most vulnerable.
you know, the people who really need labor unions.
Find the person who will love you because of your differences and not in spite of them and you have found a lover for life. ~ Leo Buscaglia
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Oh, you mean teachers and ballplayers.
But seriously, you are right - ugly jobs still get filled. I believe that the labor market is efficient in aggregate but there are still pockets of the economy that are not.
:monkey:
depends on my job. if it was in Education, I'd join, if it was something else I might....
"To search for the old is to understand the new." -Gichin Funakoshi-
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I'm already a teamster, so guess what I voted?
"I remember my first orgasm, I just wish someone was there to share it with me..."11-05-2003 05:33 AM - Topane
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, & the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the masses. - Karl Marx
Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre
I'm too awesome to be held back by a union
~~~~~~~~~~~~
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3 days I dread to see arrive
3 days I hate to be alive
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yesterday today and tomorrow
I was a UFCW union member for 13 years.
Have since gotten out of the business.
Based upon the overwhelming amount of idiots that were in my Local, I would vote NO for my current occupation. Most people have no real concept of what it takes to run a business and have unreasonable expectations of what an employer and the union can actually do for you.
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(O lllllll O)
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ive never been in one, but my grandfather swore by his electrical union. he said they really took care of him,even to the end.
Bill Gates
"We'll never be as cool as them. Every conference you go to, there they are dressed in black, and no one is cooler!"
based on experience in a company facility that employed union...um...employees i would say absolutely not. it's extremely likely that this union will be the cause of the entire facility will be closed down shortly and the production moved to some of our other facilities because the union won't bend on safety, pay, shift flexibility, and other items. i could cite examples but i could get fired so...believe me. the union mgmt. has no ****ing clue what the true market value of their skillsets.
70% of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Bob Sanders
Unions are inherently communist because it foregos free-market activity.
Victor
But is that bad? Without a dash of socialism, capitalism turns into an aristocracy pretty quick. *cough*corperate america*cough* *cough*campaign contributions*cough*
"I remember my first orgasm, I just wish someone was there to share it with me..."11-05-2003 05:33 AM - Topane
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, & the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the masses. - Karl Marx
Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre
Look fooooooor the union laaabeeeeeeeel. How does the rest of the jingle go?
I'd rather see and pay more for American Union-made goods than "Made in China" and Proudly Marketed by your local insidious Wally-World not so goods.
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him.
Galileo Galilei
I think Unions are needed only for when a situation becomes exploitive, but it doesn't need to go further than that. Take the situation of grad students. I would have them unionize just to bring attention and maybe have some sort of arbitration process, but they shouldn't get into dictating salaries or hirings/firings. Otherwise they'd spiral down to a GM level
Unions should just be a gathering of employees working for a common good, not a junta or mafia like they are in many of our industries.
TOTALLY AGREED!
yep. but with less propaganda (so far).
as for me, it's union HELL NO! I agree with wwp. I can make a better deal for myself than anyone else will. There's no need for me to be tied to the middle of the pack when I can do better than that.
What if you worked at a place where management has no interest in giving you a better deal? Sure I guess you can go find another job, but what if you really couldn't do that either? Then what?
I still believe unions are evil, but in these situation the only thing I can think of is to form a union just to show that it's not one person management's screwing with, but with many/everyone.
i am a chemist/materials engineer in a moderately specialized field. i absolutely would go somewhere else and I did. i started my new job in September. my boss was such an ass and was rather stingy given all of the profitable work that I did for the company. so as soon as i got an offer from my new place i left and didn't look back. i am very happy in my new position and i didn't need a union to help me get a lot more money with a better company that gives better benefits.
as for the hypothetical part, if i can't go somewhere else then that means i am in a dead end job and hanging on to a union is even worse than finding a new job in a new field.
go to college, learn something, get a useful degree and you don't need no stinkin' union.
Why couldn't he? He is not a slave and as such is free to leave. If he can't find a better position then maybe it is a case of him needing to readjust/re-evaluate exactly what he has to offer.
There is a building just down the street that has had people picketing in front of it for what seems like forever. When asked what was going on the picketers responded that they were picketing because the building, which is being renovated, hired non-union carpenters for "below the prevailing wage." Now call me carzy buy if someone is willing to do the work for the wage paid then does that not become the new prevailing wage? Just seems to me like these folks need to realize that their skills might not be as valuable/scarce as they would have you believe.
:monkey:
No...I was refering to a hypothical situation where someone was stuck in a position where they couldn't change jobs. It's not necessarily a dead end job, but it's a valid example. Another example are grad students. They really can't pick up since many they're 3 years into a 5 year program and would have to start over if they changed schools. Maybe their visa binds them to that school, etc.Why couldn't he? He is not a slave and as such is free to leave. If he can't find a better position then maybe it is a case of him needing to readjust/re-evaluate exactly what he has to offer.
I'm only for unions in exploitive situations where the employer knows they're stuck so they drag them through the dirt. Walmart employees remind me of this situation also.
Yeah that's pretty stupid. You know what it's called when you demand everyone to pay a certain amount? It's called a CARTEL.There is a building just down the street that has had people picketing in front of it for what seems like forever. When asked what was going on the picketers responded that they were picketing because the building, which is being renovated, hired non-union carpenters for "below the prevailing wage." Now call me carzy buy if someone is willing to do the work for the wage paid then does that not become the new prevailing wage? Just seems to me like these folks need to realize that their skills might not be as valuable/scarce as they would have you believe.
What unions do is try to get the upper hand with members, then start forcing higher and higher wages and benefits to the point where it isn't realistic. That's not fair bargaining, that's extortion.
Sorry, that is where my unimaginative brain is having some difficulty. I can't really think of a job that can't be left.
:monkey:
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