star wars plot holes?

[g222leav]

ok, i'm going to assume that most of you have seen episode III by now...if not i apoligize for any spoilers...
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at any rate, in the WHOLE saga what plot holes have you noticed? inconsistencies within the story as a whole?

for example: why does obi-wan in episode not recognize r2-d2 or c3po...episode III makes an explaination of why c3po doesn't remember obi-wan but not r2-d2, i'm assuming that r2-d2 doesn't actually speak so we wouldn't notice.

plus in the dvd versions of episode 6, at the end when luke sees his father, yoda and obi-wan, then altered his father to replace it with hayden christensen's body...

[Mike_N_Ike]

...plus in the dvd versions of episode 6, at the end when luke sees his father, yoda and obi-wan, then altered his father to replace it with hayden christensen's body...

I thought that was tacky to do. They should have left it the way it was.

[LPMiller]

He lies about the robots. When he first meets them, and before he's seen the Leia message, he's still hiding who he is and protecting Luke. After Lukes family gets killed there is no point in hiding, but then, there isn't much point in him sayin, "Hey, I KNOW those guys!"

[DarkFury]

He lies about the robots. When he first meets them, and before he's seen the Leia message, he's still hiding who he is and protecting Luke. After Lukes family gets killed there is no point in hiding, but then, there isn't much point in him sayin, "Hey, I KNOW those guys!"

* bingo *

He was there to watch over Luke... He pretty much knew what was up when those droids showed up.

[g222leav]

ok...that explains that then...

anyother plot holes you guys have noticed?

i've often wondered who the jedi was that ordered the clones?
was it darth sidious?

[DarkFury]

i've often wondered who the jedi was that ordered the clones?
was it darth sidious?

"I think you are on to something... "

(Although Dooku might have made the actual purchase order... he was a "Jedi" of course... the apprentice of Yoda and master to Qui-Gon Jinn.)

[gear02]

"I think you are on to something... "

(Although Dooku might have made the actual purchase order... he was a "Jedi" of course... the apprentice of Yoda and master to Qui-Gon Jinn.)

Well, the cloners said that a Jedi named Sifo Dyas placed the order. Sifo Dyas was a jedi who died after the battle of Naboo, and Palpatine just used his name to get the clones.

No, I didn't know that off the top of my head. Google is a wonderful tool.

[verve247]

In episode 5 didn't Leia say she knew her real mother? But only very briefly. Not thats a wide plot hole.

[attgig]

i think it was episode 6. when Luke asks her if she remembered their mother...she's like... I remember her at a young age. only pictures.

but, what kinda confuses me is that....Darth Vader would have to think..what happened to my baby if she's dead. wouldn't he have gone looking? and if he looked, i think Leia would be easier to find, considering that the senator guy knew the girl.

shrug.

[DarkFury]

Well, the cloners said that a Jedi named Sifo Dyas placed the order. Sifo Dyas was a jedi who died after the battle of Naboo, and Palpatine just used his name to get the clones.

"The Dark Side" can do many things to cloud the minds of the weak... Using a "ruse" to get what they want is not below those of the "Dark Side".


By the way.. put it together... "Syfo Dyas".... SyfoDyas.... Sidious... "Darth Sidious".

[LPMiller]

they made it clear that padme was buried LOoKING preggers.

[DarkFury]

they made it clear that padme was buried LOoKING preggers.

Yeah.... heh, that was "clever" of them. How better to protect the twins.

[g222leav]

"I think you are on to something... "

(Although Dooku might have made the actual purchase order... he was a "Jedi" of course... the apprentice of Yoda and master to Qui-Gon Jinn.)

couldn't have been dooku...cause why would dooku place an order for a clone army and then create the seperatists droid army....and the be surprised that the republic was able to amass such a large army in such a short time in episode 2

and

they made it clear that padme was buried LOoKING preggers.

i often wondered why darth vader never went looking for his KID...as far as he knew he only had one child...*if* padme was buried looking pregnant that would explain that fact..but i don't remember that in the movie(s)

and

i think it was episode 6. when Luke asks her if she remembered their mother...she's like... I remember her at a young age. only pictures

it was episode 6...i just watched it today...and she says she only remembers pictures/images of her real mother (padme)

it is my understanding that luke and vader had a connection while padme and leia had a connection whereas they could sense one another. that is why the fact of a daughter had eluded vader...


...on another note...watching vader in episodes 4-6 the jedi sword fight scenes where not as dramatic (IMO) as episodes 3-6...

also...although master yoda is a freakin' awesome jedi...he did lose his two battles (vs. dooku and vs. sidious)...albeit those two siths were cheatin' bastids...in episode 5 when we are *truly* introduced to yoda...he seemed a bit crazy...perhaps its all those years living in exile alone..

[Thesifer]

She was buried looking Pregnant.. I know that for sure.. cause Thats one thing I looked for..
As for the Droids.. R2 .. Did know where he was going.. Cause he remembered Obi Wan..

And as a Matter of word Play.. Obi-wan never lied about it .. he said .. "I don't remember Ever OWNING Any droids." .. Well.. technically he never did Own any Droids.. So.. he just kinda.. played with words..

Im sure part of that had to do with George wanting to make R2 and C3PO part of the New Episodes.. and then had to Try and fit them in with the Storylines.. I Wanna say that I read somewhere though that C3PO had never had a Memory Wipe.. and was "Special".. but I could be mistaken.. Ill look for it and see

[Merlin]

Obi Wan didn't own any droids. And frankly the droids are background characters in their world. Not to be paid too much attention. To them it would be like recognizing a toaster that you have not seen in 25 years. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point.

Vader didn't fo looking for the child/children because he was told their mother died and that he killed her. Never was there a mention of childbirth. Although from his premenitions he should have known that at least one was born. Maybe a plot hole afterall.

Things that bother me are the inconsistencies with aging. First Anakin starts out much younger than Padme then seems to magically catch up. Maybe people from Naboo age slower than others. Then Obi Wan goes from being in his early 30's at the very most to like 60+ in the few years it took Luke to grow to what 18 years old? Again maybe people with Naboo blood in them age slower but still.....

As for Leia's memories....she never knew she was adopted. Maybe the memories were of her adopted mother. She might have been sad because of the rise of oppression thanks to the Emperor. She would have been closer to it than most because she is a member of a political family.

Although if she is the adopted daughter of a Senator then why is her title princess?

And my biggest plot hole surrounds what some Jedi vanish when they die and others leave a body. The movie mentions something about communing with the force. But if Qui Gon did it then why did he leave a body. I have trouble with that one.

And something that didn't make sense until recently was from Ruturn of the Jedi. Why did the Emperor keep saying kill me to Luke. That placed a lot of faith in Vader to stop him. Surprising to see that kind of trust in the Sith. But not it seems the Emperor just wanted to trade Vader in on a younger moder like he did with Dooku to Anakin.

[DarkFury]

couldn't have been dooku...cause why would dooku place an order for a clone army and then create the seperatists droid army....and the be surprised that the republic was able to amass such a large army in such a short time in episode 2

All part of the MASTER plot to take over the Republic... and create the EMPIRE!!! Bwaaa haa haa haa...

The "Separatists" were pawns in the game... Darth Sidious used them and got rid of them when their usefulness was done. Dooku was also a pawn... he did what Sidious told him to do, however pretty much he "knew his role" in what his master wanted and acted surprised when it was necessary to carry on the ruse. "With the Dark Side... all may not be as it might seem"

The person placing the order for the clone army never appeared in person to place the order... "sight unseen", the order was placed by Sifo Dyas or whatever and Jango Fett (the cloned assassin) was hired by Darth Tyrannus (who is Dooku)... Wouldn't it make sense that he might also have had a hand in placing the order if he picked the person to be cloned?

i often wondered why darth vader never went looking for his KID...as far as he knew he only had one child...*if* padme was buried looking pregnant that would explain that fact..but i don't remember that in the movie(s)

and



it was episode 6...i just watched it today...and she says she only remembers pictures/images of her real mother (padme)

it is my understanding that luke and vader had a connection while padme and leia had a connection whereas they could sense one another. that is why the fact of a daughter had eluded vader...


...on another note...watching vader in episodes 4-6 the jedi sword fight scenes where not as dramatic (IMO) as episodes 3-6...

also...although master yoda is a freakin' awesome jedi...he did lose his two battles (vs. dooku and vs. sidious)...albeit those two siths were cheatin' bastids...in episode 5 when we are *truly* introduced to yoda...he seemed a bit crazy...perhaps its all those years living in exile alone..

Well... Vader only became aware of Luke once Luke became "Force Sensitive". Prior to that, Vader did not know that he was alive (or else he probably woulda went after him long before Episode 4) Leia never became "Force Sensitive" enough for Vader to sense her... although she had to potential to be (which might explain why she could have "visions" of her real mother through their connection in the Force without actually seeing her in person).

[DarkFury]

The one "plot loophole" that I saw... but really doesn't bug me is this...

Annikin created C3PO... but left him with his mother on Tatooine when he left with Qui-Gon and Obi Wan heading for Corescant.

Annikin's mother was sold out of slavery to the Lars family and she took C3PO with her. Therefore, the Younger Lars (Anni's "step brother) and his wife Beru knew C3PO in Episode 2... before Anni and Padme took C3PO with them after he buried his Shmii (his mother)

Well.. in Episode 4... some 20 years later C3PO returns to Tatooine with R2D2 and is re-united with Lars and Beru... yet they don't recognize him and he doesn't seem to recognize them even though he spent some time with them before (from Ep 2).

Yes... this is not major, however I think Lucas could've fixed this plot hole by having Watto keep C3PO when he gave up Shmii to Lars... C3PO coulda been his "assistant" in the shop to replace Shmii and then when Anni came back, he could've "reclaimed" him thus not interferring with the SW timeline history of Ep 4 events. Just my thoughts there...

[DarkFury]

Things that bother me are the inconsistencies with aging. First Anakin starts out much younger than Padme then seems to magically catch up. Maybe people from Naboo age slower than others. Then Obi Wan goes from being in his early 30's at the very most to like 60+ in the few years it took Luke to grow to what 18 years old? Again maybe people with Naboo blood in them age slower but still.....

Episode 1
Anni - 9 years old
Padme - 14 years old
Obi Wan - 24 years old

Episode 2
Anni - 19 years old
Padme - 24 years old
Obi Wan - 34 years old

Episode 3
Anni - approx 24 years old (assuming that the Clone wars was about 5 years)
Padme - 29 years old
Obi Wan - 39 years old

Episode 4 (assuming 16 years have passed)

Obi Wan - 55 years old (but life on Tatooine is HARD and dry heat probably makes you age faster/look older )

[Merlin]

Well.. in Episode 4... some 20 years later C3PO returns to Tatooine with R2D2 and is re-united with Lars and Beru... yet they don't recognize him and he doesn't seem to recognize them even though he spent some time with them before (from Ep 2).

When 3PO was there the first time he was silver/steel in color. The second time he had the gold plating so he did not look the same. Also, I doubt many people give the droids too much thought. So they were easily forgotten. Then later he only saw him for like 30 seconds or so when he bought the droids from the jawas. Seems likely to me that he simply forgot them. Had he spent more time with him it might have triggered a memory buy that didn't happen.

[Cantacuzene]

Agree with Merlin about the droids. Also remember that the shells of the droids are store bought and many droids have the same casing, like when C3PO runs into a look a like on cloud city. It would be like having seen a toaster that your friend owned and years later buying that same model toaster at a pawn shop, you wouldn't expect it to be the same exact toaster but it just happens to be.

[DarkFury]

When 3PO was there the first time he was silver/steel in color. The second time he had the gold plating so he did not look the same. Also, I doubt many people give the droids too much thought. So they were easily forgotten. Then later he only saw him for like 30 seconds or so when he bought the droids from the jawas. Seems likely to me that he simply forgot them. Had he spent more time with him it might have triggered a memory buy that didn't happen.

Agree with Merlin about the droids. Also remember that the shells of the droids are store bought and many droids have the same casing, like when C3PO runs into a look a like on cloud city. It would be like having seen a toaster that your friend owned and years later buying that same model toaster at a pawn shop, you wouldn't expect it to be the same exact toaster but it just happens to be.

Well to my knowledge each droid has a unique designator... i.e. C3PO.. hell. with NO plating on him, he was still recognizable 10 years later.

Not buying it from that perspective... Still, I think my scenario above woulda cleared it up a lil bit better... (as if it really matters to the general plot of the movie. )

BTW... if C3PO's memory had never been wiped... he would've remembered "the family farm" I guess.

[MrGreg]

Not really a plot hole, but it sure seems like the Emporer goes through a lot of apprentices:

Ep. I: Darth Maul
II-III: Darth Tyrannus
III-VI: Darth Vader
VI: tries to get Luke to kill Vader and become new apprentice

[DarkFury]

Not really a plot hole, but it sure seems like the Emporer goes through a lot of apprentices:

Ep. I: Darth Maul
II-III: Darth Tyrannus
III-VI: Darth Vader
VI: tries to get Luke to kill Vader and become new apprentice

He probably rather Lease than Buy...

[Cantacuzene]

Plus remember that its the sith traditon for the pupil to kill the master and take his place when he gets strong enough. If you kill off your pupil and replace him right before he ursurps your position you avoid that.

[SolidSnake]

I guess most of the plot holes have been covered, but did anybody notice when sidious lightsaber falls through the window, when he fights yoda where does he get the new one, sabers r' us?

And yes the sith tradition is a master and an apprentice , the apprentice may decide to kill the master or not, and that's why they change apprentices so they don't take their position

[Merlin]

Lucas said one of the themes was that the Emperor has a difficult time keeping apprentices. Buy now it is obvious that he is constantly attempting to upgrade to someone younger and more powerful. And yes, we did hear Vader talk about overthrowing the Emperor on more than one occasion. He said he would do it to Padme and then later he tried to get Luke to join him and ursurp power.

[Cantacuzene]

Vader is co-dependent.

[TofuNinja]

C3PO had is memory swiped. Therefore he wouldn't recognize Lars. ANd if memory serves me right, C3PO didn't really spend much time with Uncle Owen... didn't introduce himself formally to Uncle Owen, to LUke yes... but not Uncle Owen. Luke was in charge of tending to the Droids.

As for why Qui Gon didn't fade even though he is now one with the Living Force, the only answer I could come up with is that he violated Jedi Law just like Anakin did. He pledged himself to another Jedi named Tahl. Anakin (Vader) married Padme. Both did not fade into the Force. Obi Wan was in love with a Jedi named Siri and she him, but they never formally pledged themselves to each other. Yoda, I am not sure if he was ever in love during his 900 years... so that info would make or break my theory. Add that to the fact that Obi Wan and Yoda were pretty much the only two Jedi to train in Qui Gon's new style...(although in the comics, when Vader kills the Dark Lady she fades too......). Hmm..... but yeah.... violating Jedi code.... or something is my answer to the fade not fade question

Lucas said one of the themes was that the Emperor has a difficult time keeping apprentices. Buy now it is obvious that he is constantly attempting to upgrade to someone younger and more powerful. And yes, we did hear Vader talk about overthrowing the Emperor on more than one occasion. He said he would do it to Padme and then later he tried to get Luke to join him and ursurp power.

Well I think that Obi Wan killing Darth Maul set back his plans. Had Darth Maul lived it would have been a different story. Basically because Darth Maul died, Anakin came into the picture. Dooku was nothing more than a tool.

[Thesifer]

Although if she is the adopted daughter of a Senator then why is her title princess?

Senator Organa's Wife is the Queen of Alderaan .. By the way

[ShawnLee]

As for why Qui Gon didn't fade even though he is now one with the Living Force, the only answer I could come up with is that he violated Jedi Law just like Anakin did. He pledged himself to another Jedi named Tahl. Anakin (Vader) married Padme. Both did not fade into the Force. Obi Wan was in love with a Jedi named Siri and she him, but they never formally pledged themselves to each other. Yoda, I am not sure if he was ever in love during his 900 years... so that info would make or break my theory. Add that to the fact that Obi Wan and Yoda were pretty much the only two Jedi to train in Qui Gon's new style...(although in the comics, when Vader kills the Dark Lady she fades too......). Hmm..... but yeah.... violating Jedi code.... or something is my answer to the fade not fade question

I read somewhere that it had more to do with Qui Gon figuring out this new Jedi trick, but not mastering it. He tells Yoda, who teaches it to Obi-Wan and the two of them figure out the body part, whereas Qui-Gon only learned the voice throwing trick.