My relationship theory

**gear02** · 08-26-2005, 10:45 PM

So I've been through about two weeks of school and I've seen some of my peers meet women in our program (a tough feat considering they only make up 22% of the class). I'm sort of frustrated and almost jealous. I figured going back to school would help me find someone...but let me explain the whole story.

I'm 25 and I've never had a girlfriend...and (i'm sad to admit it in such a public setting) I've never had a real kiss...and let's not go any further.

I think the big reason for that is that I don't pursue women. I don't hit on any girls and really don't look for targets. I've told myself that my personal philosophy is that it will just happen and I really don't have to actively "hunt". I'm not really sure about that anymore.

I don't really go to bars because I don't really like to drink and I don't like the atmosphere. Why go to a hot sweaty loud place to talk? It's just uncomfortable, especially without alcohol.

It's not I'm a reclusive jerk. I've found out that people consider me to be a very outgoing, "maintenance-oriented" person. Physically I could lose a little weight, but I'm not obese nor am I ugly (I think). I guess I just figure it'll take me longer to get to know some women...

So...basically...(seriously) what do you think?

**Jenny** · 08-26-2005, 11:33 PM

I dunno but I do know from what I know of you on here, you are a nice, decent, funny, standup guy. From what I know of you on here, any girl would be lucky to be your gf.

**ialsohaveadream** · 08-27-2005, 12:12 AM

I have put a gag on my shoulder devil, so I will only be offering constructive, useful advice...no jokes for once.

Originally Posted by gear02

I think the big reason for that is that I don't pursue women. I don't hit on any girls and really don't look for targets. I've told myself that my personal philosophy is that it will just happen and I really don't have to actively "hunt". I'm not really sure about that anymore.

If you had just told me you'd been single, and offered no reason, this is one of the two reasons that would've popped into my head. Yes, you need to pursue women to get them. Think about this: Would the job opportunity of a lifetime seek you out? Did the best college for you find you somewhere and drag you onto their campus? Will the perfect woman for you discover your existence and make all the effort to get you?

There's a slim chance that you could get a girl based on dumb luck. Hell, I've had a case like that before...but it's not something to hold your breath on.

Originally Posted by gear02

I don't really go to bars because I don't really like to drink and I don't like the atmosphere. Why go to a hot sweaty loud place to talk? It's just uncomfortable, especially without alcohol.

There are other places to meet women, it's just a little easier at bars since it's generally assumed women don't mind being approached at bars. However, you can always find a nice coffee shop, a bookstore, a gym, etc.

Originally Posted by gear02

It's not I'm a reclusive jerk. I've found out that people consider me to be a very outgoing, "maintenance-oriented" person. Physically I could lose a little weight, but I'm not obese nor am I ugly (I think). I guess I just figure it'll take me longer to get to know some women...

If you could lose a little weight, go to the gym regularly with a friend and see if you notice any girls that catch your eye. If so, then (and pay attention, because this is the most important part) approach the girl, introduce yourself, and have a brief conversation (keep it brief, though, because she IS there to work out...and so are you supposedly). If she seems interested, ask if you can call her some time.

Just remember this: If you get rejected, it's not the end of the world. It sucks, but you get over it. Good luck!

**Merlin** · 08-27-2005, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by gear02

I'm 25 and I've never had a girlfriend...and I've never had a real kiss......I don't pursue women.... I don't hit on any girls

Are you gay? This apparent lack of drive might be an indicator that you are a candidate for an alternative lifestyle.

**nickel** · 08-27-2005, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by Merlin

Are you gay? This apparent lack of drive might be an indicator that you are a candidate for an alternative lifestyle.

this was my thought too.

i have never heard of a red-blooded heterosexual guy not pursuing women in some way, shape or form at your age.

do you have a sex drive? or are you just painfully shy around women?

sure, the right girl can "just happen" but it won't happen unless you make it happen. girls aren't attracted to dishcloths. you have to show some interest.

you need to change your philosophy gear02. i'd be glad to give you pointers.

**MikeD** · 08-27-2005, 07:19 AM

I'm not particularly comfortable breaking down your situation without knowing you well (at all), but two things:

First, it takes an incredibly big man to state what you did in your post. Congrats on having the cajones to do so.

Secondly, one thing I can tell you: it's confidence, man, confidence. Not all women want the workout warrior with 5% body fat, or the guy with 7 figures in his bank account. Personality is huge...and from the sounds of your posts, you've got it. That's an advantage you have; you just need to use it.

I do agree with IAHAD; hitting the gym wouldn't hurt. You know what you have to do, take the ball and run with it and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

**gear02** · 08-27-2005, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by nickel

this was my thought too.

i have never heard of a red-blooded heterosexual guy not pursuing women in some way, shape or form at your age.

do you have a sex drive? or are you just painfully shy around women?

sure, the right girl can "just happen" but it won't happen unless you make it happen. girls aren't attracted to dishcloths. you have to show some interest.

you need to change your philosophy gear02. i'd be glad to give you pointers.

I'm definately not gay. I can certainly tell you that. I don't think I'm shy around women either. I think I may just be worried about certain things like rejection. I think I don't know how to continue the conversation.

But mostly, I think I just don't like "hunting". I have a "friend" who does nothing but hunt and I find it disgusting. I don't think I'm desperate by any means, so I think I don't have to actively pursue. I just let it happen. I think developing a relationship naturally is more healthy than forcing your way into the girl's life.

Let me add something else while I'm at it. I feel like I'm pretty good developing working relationships, but I'm not sure why I don't have many friends. When I go home I usually spend the nights and weekend alone. At work and school I usually hang out with people, but that doesn't seem to go past that. Maybe it's because I don't go to bars with them?

Btw you've seen me talk about bars and me asking about good beers and alcohol. This is the reason why. I've actually been forcing myself these last two weeks to go to parties and try drinks (no I binge drink, I barely have half a beer). But I've found that it's really not me and I'm not forcing myself to go to parties and bars.

**Emqtee** · 08-27-2005, 08:02 AM

This may seem kind of dumb, but if you are back in school what about study groups? Or the library? Do you have any outside interests? You could do volunteer work. Making friends is hard but if you find people with common interests it will be that much easier.

Another thing is just be yourself. Don't try to impress or do things that you think other people like. (if you don't like it yourself) It will just make you feel miserable.

**johnnymk** · 08-27-2005, 08:39 AM

I have a 27 year old nephew who has never had a girlfriend, He's a good looking guy with a very good personality, nice build and very intelligent. He was involved in a very serious car accident about 8 years ago and has been a recluse since then. He lives at home with my sister who still babies him.

I can't imagine being that age and not pursuing women. There are so many good looking ones out there now, If I was in my mid twenties, I would be like a kid in a candy store.

**ialsohaveadream** · 08-27-2005, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by MikeD

Secondly, one thing I can tell you: it's confidence, man, confidence. Not all women want the workout warrior with 5% body fat, or the guy with 7 figures in his bank account.

Yeah, if you hadn't said that you weren't actively pursuing girls, this was my second guess. If you don't have confidence, women can tell...and they aren't interested.

I used to wonder how ugly ass loser guys would end up with decent women, and then I finally realized that it's because the ugly ass loser guys don't think they're ugly ass losers. They're loaded with confidence, and they carry themselves so well that women are fooled into thinking they must actually have something to be confident about.

With that in mind, I wouldn't force yourself to go to a bar if you're uncomfortable there. The fact that you're uncomfortable will show, and it won't help your cause.

**verve247** · 08-27-2005, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by gear02

Let me add something else while I'm at it. I feel like I'm pretty good developing working relationships, but I'm not sure why I don't have many friends. When I go home I usually spend the nights and weekend alone. At work and school I usually hang out with people, but that doesn't seem to go past that. Maybe it's because I don't go to bars with them?

Now that hits the nail on the head. If you don't go out, how are you supposed to meet new people/women? If you started making plans to go out with men / women from work or school, it gives you an opportunity to meet more women and possibly one you would like to ask out. You just have to get out there.

Ignore the chasing/gay comments. Too many people look like idiots and have crummy relationships when desperate for a hole to poke. You can have some class pursuing women. Do what is comfortable for you.

**booger73** · 08-27-2005, 10:00 AM

I"m one of those firm believers in the 'When the time is right (or all the stars align), something will happen" - I don't think you have to actively go pursuing people if you don't feel like it/don't want to.. when you're ready as a person and have the confidence in yourself and the things you have to offer, people you meet or the way you see things will be in a different light and things will just happen...

the timing on finding two people who are at that same point in time is the tough part.

**Maarchk** · 08-27-2005, 10:20 AM

You are doing fine. You dont have to drink and act silly to get girls. The only things i can reccomend are maybe trying to make sure you look sharp, to catch someones eye, cause thats where it starts even if thats not the biggest part.

Just keep up with what you got going on. It sounds like you interact fine. I went up till senior year of high school with nothing, then dated a girl for 6 months. then 3 more years of nothing, then a 2 year relationship. So i mean, i dont think you can measure failure by looking at time periods, cause maybe you have been around the wrong type of woman, or the wrong situations. I would just try to find something you like doing... and go do it and try and meet others doing it. Cause its good to start with a common bond.

Good luck Cheif.

**MikeD** · 08-27-2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by gear02

I think I may just be worried about certain things like rejection. I think I don't know how to continue the conversation.

I meant to comment on this too, and it goes with the confidence portion of the conversation. The worst thing you'll ever hear is "No". Just two letters...and if you get a "No", there's a bajillion other girls out there who may say yes.

I've asked girls out (where I thought it was a slam dunk) and been told "No". I've taken fliers on some that I thought were out of my league, and been told "Yes". The key is asking; you won't ever know if you don't try.

There's been some posts about being in a comfortable situation, and that's definitely good advice too. You're more likely to find success if you're comfortable with where you're at.

You'll be fine G02. Hey, just make sure all of us are invited to your wedding someday. And it better be open bar too.

**RoniMan** · 08-29-2005, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by MikeD

I'm not particularly comfortable breaking down your situation without knowing you well (at all), but two things:

First, it takes an incredibly big man to state what you did in your post. Congrats on having the cajones to do so.

Secondly, one thing I can tell you: it's confidence, man, confidence. Not all women want the workout warrior with 5% body fat, or the guy with 7 figures in his bank account. Personality is huge...and from the sounds of your posts, you've got it. That's an advantage you have; you just need to use it.

I do agree with IAHAD; hitting the gym wouldn't hurt. You know what you have to do, take the ball and run with it and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

x 100

i also choose not drink and i also hate the "hunt". in fact, back in college, my female friends says that i would make a wonderful husband and dad (ugh!...that is NOT something you say to a 21-yr old!)

however, i know how you feel about the rejection thing. but i've found out that a relationship is like a video game.
1. you have to find a location that carries that ones that you want (bars aren't your thing? well, go somewhere else that has the type of girls that you like)
2. you have to spend some money to get it (and by it, i don't mean...well, you know. you have to woo the girl a bit. flowers, dinner...yada yada)
3. you have to keep playing it to get better at it (i really need to stop using "it", cause it just sounds bad.)
4. once you're bored of it, then you go back to the store and buy a new one (/ducks) i keed!!! i keed!!

all jokes aside, mikeD hit it on the nose. it's all about the confidence. if you've done sales, or read any literature on success, rejection is normal. it's just a part of life. you gotta go through it so you can learn from it. you need to go through it so you can get stronger from it. the stronger you are, the more confident you become. and then the more women you'll attract.

**InfiniteNothing** · 08-29-2005, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by gear02

...

Have you considered an online dating service. I hear they do pretty well with the oddballs like you who are only really compatible with a fraction of the population.

**nickel** · 08-29-2005, 11:28 AM

eHarmony.com

it'll cost ya though, but i think it could bring you success.

**MikeD** · 08-29-2005, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing

with the oddballs like you who are only really compatible with a fraction of the population.

We were doing pretty well here until this point.

J/K, actually not bad advice...

**Gothic Girl** · 08-29-2005, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by johnnymk

I have a 27 year old nephew who has never had a girlfriend, He's a good looking guy with a very good personality, nice build and very intelligent. He was involved in a very serious car accident about 8 years ago and has been a recluse since then. He lives at home with my sister who still babies him.

I can't imagine being that age and not pursuing women. There are so many good looking ones out there now, If I was in my mid twenties, I would be like a kid in a candy store.

They don't live in San Diego do they? I know a mom and son who are just like that...

**mcs328** · 08-29-2005, 01:44 PM

I find roofies do wonders at the club.

Just kidding. I am fortunate to say I was in your situation except the goodlooking outgoing part and I spent my time in the arcade on campus. You think 22% is a bad ratio? Have you checked out the classes in the Engineering building....we had maybe 10 girl in a class of 100 and then sophmore year it was 5. I switched to the business school and oh the ratio shot up the charts with a bullet.

Anyways it helps if the pool of women is large but barring that sometimes you got to initiate and hold "fun" conversations. "Fun" is not talking about last nights homework which is a good ice breaker and establishes familar grounds but it shouldn't delve into the world of Transformers and card by card strategy of Yu-Gi-Oh which I must admit my older brother has done countless times as I watch the interest in a girls face slowy drain away as they desperately look for an out or a sword to slice their bowels open. It's fine if they dig it and do that whole anime cos-play scene which is just gold for you but I think the average girl wouldn't go for that.

How about wrapping a twenty around a bunch of ones?

**FlyByPoster** · 08-29-2005, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by gear02

Let me add something else while I'm at it. I feel like I'm pretty good developing working relationships, but I'm not sure why I don't have many friends. When I go home I usually spend the nights and weekend alone. At work and school I usually hang out with people, but that doesn't seem to go past that. Maybe it's because I don't go to bars with them?

It sounds like if you want the relationship to happen organically, you might want to first concentrate on being friends first. Work on making a set of friends first -- guys and girls -- and then see where that takes you. Even if your friends don't turn out to be dating material, they might lead you to someone who is. Not necessarily blind dates or anything, at the least they will widen your circle of interaction, thus upping your odds. And if nothing else, you won't be sitting at home on Friday nights. You're way too young to be doing that already!

Originally Posted by gear02

Btw you've seen me talk about bars and me asking about good beers and alcohol. This is the reason why. I've actually been forcing myself these last two weeks to go to parties and try drinks (no I binge drink, I barely have half a beer). But I've found that it's really not me and I'm not forcing myself to go to parties and bars.

Number One Rule: Don't try to be something you aren't! Women can spot posers a mile off and it just makes you look dumb and desperate. If you go to parties, don't drink if you don't want to. Tell people you have a better time when you are sober. I have a friend who tells people that drinking just makes him sleepy and he hates missing a good party.

Confidence is important, but not over-confidence. Just enough to show that you are happy in yourself and that you like meeting people. Ask questions to show that you are interested in other people and actually listen. If they never ask you a question back, then chances are, if they are just not painfully shy, they just want you to stroke their ego so end the conversation politely. If you've intrigued someone enough, she will try to find you. Also, while working out is important for your own health and shows that you care about yourself, don't wait until you have that "perfect" body to meet someone. If you are as decent as you sound, then an equally decent person will find you attractive even if you need to lose a few pounds. If someone won't date you because of a few pounds, is that really a person you want to be with? 'Cause as you get older, the pounds will creep up on you, no matter who you are!

Oh, and make sure you smell good. Seriously! Women are highly olfactorily-tuned. So be clean and if you wear cologne or after-shave, don't bathe in it. You'd be surprised how many men don't think about this! I've met many smoking-hot guys who just reek that I or my friends would not get near!

You sound like a great fellow, but what do you mean by "maintenance-oriented"? Does that mean you're really anal-retentive? Or that you're looking for someone to take care of you? Or...?

Good luck and we're here for you!!

**welfareloser** · 08-30-2005, 09:11 AM

dude, i'm not goig to give you any sh** about not pursuing women. that's really okay. it doesn't have to be a lack of interest, or shyness, or repressed gayness, or anything bad... it's okay that you don't like to hang out in bars. the "meat market" has always felt artificial to me. i don't like getting hit on, and don't respond to it invitingly. I don't hit on guys. I've only dated 4 people since i was 15.

if you start changing things up and acting like someone you're not, you're going to wind up getting yourself a girl ...who isn't for you. don't do that to yourself. it's inferior to having no girl at all.

sounds like you just need to put yourself in places where you meet more people. you don't like bars; good for you. neither do i. join a club. study groups are a great idea. go hang out in groups that hang out with other groups. if you a church-goin type, find a church on campus (you lazy bum... no excuses. a lot of em on campuses have 4 pm services and such

) i don't know what your campus is like, but there were plenty of non-drinking events all over mine all the time... go to them. movies on the quad. free concerts. find a place to volunteer... habitat for humanity = nice girls in shorts and t-shirts with power tools

and, yeah... a program with 4x as many men as women ain't real cool if you're not an eye-catching, assertive guy. so you probably won't snag a girl at school. don't worry about it.

**Jane83** · 08-31-2005, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by nickel

eHarmony.com

it'll cost ya though, but i think it could bring you success.

this is such a hoax...
a friend and i placed a bet on whether or not this works.
i met this guy,...and from that long ass 50 page personality profile and all...the guy who was supposed to be compatible with me was OH SO BORING.
i think i would have been more entertained playing with my shoelaces.
ugh. Good thing i won my bet and i get a free meal out of it.
i dont recommend it, unless youre desperately looking for someone to marry because youve just dated way too many people and are burned out and just want to find someone else with no social life and just want to settle.
NOT ME

**ray** · 08-31-2005, 01:07 AM

Beat the women over the head with a golf club and drag them back to your place. When they wake up, tell them you saved them from the roofies at the bar.

**InfiniteNothing** · 08-31-2005, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jane83

this is such a hoax...
a friend and i placed a bet on whether or not this works.
i met this guy,...and from that long ass 50 page personality profile and all...the guy who was supposed to be compatible with me was OH SO BORING.
i think i would have been more entertained playing with my shoelaces.
ugh. Good thing i won my bet and i get a free meal out of it.
i dont recommend it, unless youre desperately looking for someone to marry because youve just dated way too many people and are burned out and just want to find someone else with no social life and just want to settle.
NOT ME

You think your skeptical outlook and the bet might have tainted your outcome. I don't think it's supposed to be a magic "get it right the first time" service. Or perhaps your standards are a smidge too high?

**Jane83** · 08-31-2005, 10:06 PM

im not all about high standards all the time...
im actually always interested in personality, characteristics...
the first couple of times we went out were good, talked about lots of things, carried a good conversation, but after the basic grounds, he was the dullest mofo ever.
im not a skeptic.
actually a dreamer.

**CrystalDuck** · 09-01-2005, 02:43 PM

The sad thing in this situation is that there is a big difference in knowing what to do and actually doing it. In my case, I've told myself a million times (years ago) that I need to get out and make more friends and stop being so lazy with my personal life. (Now I've pretty much accepted my social life.) The truth is that it's easier to sit alone at home, and social lives take a lot of effort to develop. You need to decide what you want and how much effort you're willing to invest in it. Not much? Then I'd recommend a dating service. But I've always thought that volunteer work was a great place to meet people (not that I've ever taken advantage of it, that would require effort).

And speaking of knowing what to do: I recommend reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People." It's hard to put its advice into practice, but if you're willing to put some effort into it, this book will be helpful. I think it can make anyone more likable.

**surfer** · 09-01-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by CrystalDuck

The sad thing in this situation is that there is a big difference in knowing what to do and actually doing it. In my case, I've told myself a million times (years ago) that I need to get out and make more friends and stop being so lazy with my personal life. (Now I've pretty much accepted my social life.) The truth is that it's easier to sit alone at home, and social lives take a lot of effort to develop. You need to decide what you want and how much effort you're willing to invest in it. Not much? Then I'd recommend a dating service. But I've always thought that volunteer work was a great place to meet people (not that I've ever taken advantage of it, that would require effort).

And speaking of knowing what to do: I recommend reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People." It's hard to put its advice into practice, but if you're willing to put some effort into it, this book will be helpful. I think it can make anyone more likable.

You don't have sit alone at home. Get a roomie and then you will have someone to sit at home with!