Harry Potter 4 SPOILER Thread

**bendogg** · 11-21-2005, 09:25 PM

Ok guys and gals, here is a forum to discuss the movie in detail without worrying about spoiling it for those that haven't watched it yet. Bring on the questions!

The thing I missed most was the confrontation @ the end between Dumbledore & Fudge. That was pretty important as I remember it. I didn't like the way they screwed with the Barty Crouch Jr. situation. I guess they didn't have the time to reveal all of it the way Rowling did in 700+ pages. They put him in the Riddle house and then he shows himself after the Quidditch World Cup and also inside Hogwarts.

Peeves has been cut out of all of the movies. The World Cup match itself was not a big deal to me. I would have liked to see Dudley eat the Ton Tounge Toffee though. And what about the joke shop and the prize money that Harry gave Fred & George? I pictured Madame Maxime as like 400 lbs, not a tall, skinny Russian woman.

Winky and Dobby were no-where to be found, and what about S.P.E.W.? I actually didn't miss that part, it was pretty annoying. I hoped the maze would have been closer to the book's version (Sphynx, spider, Skrewts...). Finally, I think Harry's visit to see Sirrius would have been nice to see and would have setup Book 5's end better.

Having said all of this, I understand that major cuts had to be made and think they did as good a job as was possible. I wonder how long the first cut of the movie was?

**Merlin** · 11-22-2005, 04:15 AM

Something from someone who has not read the books......

They made it seem like Valdimort's helpers were wanted fugitives. You know, the guys who dressed like KKK guys but in black. They reveal that the one kid's dad is one of them. How can it be that Harry didn't say to the authorities that they should check this guy out.

As someone who has given Harry so much grief how could he not have narked on him?

**Emqtee** · 11-22-2005, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Merlin

Something from someone who has not read the books......

They made it seem like Valdimort's helpers were wanted fugitives. You know, the guys who dressed like KKK guys but in black. They reveal that the one kid's dad is one of them. How can it be that Harry didn't say to the authorities that they should check this guy out.

As someone who has given Harry so much grief how could he not have narked on him?

Voldemort's helpers are called the death eaters. It wasn't explained too well in the movie, but most of them were in hiding or trying to fit in until the dark mark came out. The dark mark was an indication to the death eaters that Voldemort was making a return and that the loyal were to join forces again.

I think the person you are wondering about is Draco Malfoy's dad Lucius. It was well known that he was a death eater in the past. When Voldemort fell from power, Lucius pretty much told everyone that he didn't really mean anything he did because he was bewitched. Some people chose to believe his story, but others however did not. Hope that helps answer your question a little bit.

Overall the movie was o.k. but I think that for people that haven't read the books it could be confusing as to what is going on. I went with a few friends that haven't read the book in years and they at times weren't sure what was happening.

**Merlin** · 11-22-2005, 07:13 PM

Thanks em. It just seemed like something really important that got glossed over. That explanation makes sense. The movie should have mentioned that. Still pretty good though.

**Emqtee** · 11-22-2005, 07:25 PM

Your welcome. One more thing about the dark mark. . .All of the death eaters have it branded onto their arms. When Voldemort wanted to summon them he could touch the mark on one of them and all the rest would burn and turn either red or black, I don't remember.

That is why you see Voldemort grab Wormtails arm and touch it with his wand in the cemetary, right before all of the death eaters appear.

**angl2b** · 11-22-2005, 08:38 PM

does that mean Harry Potter now has that mark too?

**Devhux** · 11-22-2005, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by angl2b

does that mean Harry Potter now has that mark too?

Nope. Wormtail was a death-eater though.

**bendogg** · 11-22-2005, 11:18 PM

I just watched the movie a second time. I took 2 friends who had not read the books or probably seen the previous movies. They liked it pretty well, but I definitely see what Merlin is talking about regarding non-reader's reactions.

On the Dark Mark thing, I can see where you could mistake the gash on Harry's arm as the dark mark, but that mark is branded onto Voldemort's Death Eaters and is taken voluntarily like a badge of loyalty. Karkarof from Durmstrang has one too, as you saw in the movie.

On the Lucius Malfoy thing, Malfoy, like Em said, played dumb for 13 years and maintained a good appearance. Harry, Mr. Weasley, & Dumbledore all suspect him of doing/having dark things, but both are hard to prove. Mr. Weasley raided the Malfoy house in one of the books and found nothing.

One major way that Malfoy keeps such a liking by people is his money. He bribes and/or all the right causes/people to get what he wants. He bought the Slytherin Quidditch team a whole set of new brroms in Book 2 so Draco could get onto the team.

OK, now a question for you guys: Who was the man we see shutting the door to the Great Hall after the Goblet of Fire is revealed? I couldn't tell if it was Karkarof or Barty Crouch Jr.

**Emqtee** · 11-23-2005, 03:17 AM

ben, I am not sure who it was that shut the door. I hope it wasn't Barty Crouch Jr though. By that time he should have already been transformed into Mad Eye Moody.

Originally Posted by angl2b

does that mean Harry Potter now has that mark too?

Nope Harry doesn't have the dark mark. His scar however acts similarly. Whenever Voldemort is close his scar burns.

**Lolita** · 11-23-2005, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by bendogg

OK, now a question for you guys: Who was the man we see shutting the door to the Great Hall after the Goblet of Fire is revealed? I couldn't tell if it was Karkarof or Barty Crouch Jr.

It was Karkarof.

I just saw the movie today and was pleasantly surprised with it. It has some pretty cool scenes that were carried out exactly as I imagined them when reading the book (like the dragon and black lake tasks).
The only other movie I watched was the first one and I couldn't wait for it to end (the child actors weren't doing a great job at convincing me they know how to act back then), so compared to it this one was much better.

**GraingerGuy** · 11-24-2005, 06:52 PM

I do have to say that I liked how they didn't develop the Rita Skitter thing. She really annoyed me in the book.

I didn't like how they had Voldamort say something about the fact it was Harry's mom's love/sacrifice that protected him. I really think they should have made it so that Dumbledore said that to make him seem a little more caring of Harry. The new Dumbledore didn't do it for me. They way they wrote him and the way he was just didn't give me the powerful, grandfather wizard thing. I guess it is because Dumbledore is trying to distance himself from Harry because of the dreams (As told in the next book) but still. They made Dumbledore too stand offish.

I thought the three main characters (Harry, Ron and Herminone) did a really good job. They put a lot of emotion into all of them and it was very convincing.

**TofuNinja** · 11-24-2005, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by GraingerGuy

I didn't like how they had Voldamort say something about the fact it was Harry's mom's love/sacrifice that protected him. I really think they should have made it so that Dumbledore said that to make him seem a little more caring of Harry.

Dumbledore did tell Harry this.... in the first movie

**bendogg** · 11-25-2005, 02:37 AM

Thanks Lolita for that info! I was just glad it wasn't Crouch Jr, cause that would really upset me if they did something stupid like that.

I am continuing to go through Book 4 on tape and am surprised to see how many details were included in the movie. Yes, they cut a lot out, but I had forgotten some of the smaller details.

**oblongmelon** · 11-25-2005, 05:39 AM

I didn't read the books, but I've seen the movies...I don't know, maybe it's me, but I felt that this last one lost some of the "magic" that the earlier movies held. I think Madame Maxine must have been a man, because with hands like those there was NO WAY that was a woman. Seriously-OUCH. And Ralph Fiennes as Voldemort? COMEON-he was the good guy in MAID IN MANHATTAN for crying out loud..(although he did play Amon Goeth in Schindlers List didn't he..)..I jumped when Krum turned into a shark. I dunno-the whole movie seemed too wierd this time around. The whole "lake" scene made me claustrophobic. I think they needed more of Lucius Malfoy(Jason Isaacs who is a hottie), and less of Ron's goofy Brothers!

**Lolita** · 11-25-2005, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by GraingerGuy

...The new Dumbledore didn't do it for me...

yea, that's one thing I forgot to say. I hated this Dumbledore. Voldermort seemed friendlier than he did. Bad acting on his part. I read in another forum that this guy doesn't care to read the books, he just goes by the script - he doesn't even know how Dumbledore is supposed to be.

**bendogg** · 11-25-2005, 08:52 AM

OK, It's decided then... He's FIRED! We'll try and get Ian McClellan to do #5 or resurect Richard Harris!

**Houdini** · 11-27-2005, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by bendogg

OK, It's decided then... He's FIRED! We'll try and get Ian McClellan to do #5 or resurect Richard Harris!

I wanted Sir McClellan for the role after Harris died. Hell, I wanted him for the roll before Harris died. He would have portrayed the character MUCH better than either that have.

**SpikeDig** · 11-27-2005, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by bendogg

OK, It's decided then... He's FIRED! We'll try and get Ian McClellan to do #5 or resurect Richard Harris!

I second that for a new grandfather-like Albus D.

Gandolf will have to be Dumbledore. Sir Richard Harris played him true to a T.

Just saw it tonight at Edwards Mira Mesa in Theater 10. Wish the screen were bigger. AND, it wasn't even Digital format. Still hoping to catch it in the Irvine IMAX soon.

**SpikeDig** · 11-27-2005, 11:25 PM

Can anyone tell me your reaction to the battle betw. Harry & Lord V?

I didn't get the four images. Yes, I understand his parents & Cedric coming back to "talk" & encourage Harry, but the old caretaker too? Puh-lease.

Of course, I get it re:the love of his parents, particularly Lily's sacrifice saved Harry, hence the scar. Cedric works too bec. he just died & had to tell Harry to bring him back. And, w/a little stretch, Cedric & Harry had a "brotherly" love type relationship as classmates & his life was saved too.

BUT, the old dude in the beginning? Just to include him to tie in the beginning & end didn't cut it for me. Should've stuck w/the LOVE thing & NOT the theme of these four were killed by Voldemort bec. the Dark Lord killed a lot of folks?

Otherwise, loved it! Gotta see it two or three more times b-4 buying a DVD, used of course from Blockbuster.

**SpikeDig** · 11-27-2005, 11:28 PM

OK, last topic for discussion tonight...

I thought Cho should be prettier. Not to knock the Asian-thing, I'm Chinese myself, but she's gotta be better looking, as beautiful if not more than Hermione.

Hermione was really presented well for the ball.

**brainsmile** · 11-27-2005, 11:31 PM

who's cedric?

**bachviet** · 11-28-2005, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by brainsmile

who's cedric?

His classmate who competed and died at the end, aka the guy who touched the cup.

**Emqtee** · 11-28-2005, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by SpikeDig

Can anyone tell me your reaction to the battle betw. Harry & Lord V?

I didn't get the four images. Yes, I understand his parents & Cedric coming back to "talk" & encourage Harry, but the old caretaker too? Puh-lease.

Of course, I get it re:the love of his parents, particularly Lily's sacrifice saved Harry, hence the scar. Cedric works too bec. he just died & had to tell Harry to bring him back. And, w/a little stretch, Cedric & Harry had a "brotherly" love type relationship as classmates & his life was saved too.

BUT, the old dude in the beginning? Just to include him to tie in the beginning & end didn't cut it for me. Should've stuck w/the LOVE thing & NOT the theme of these four were killed by Voldemort bec. the Dark Lord killed a lot of folks?

Otherwise, loved it! Gotta see it two or three more times b-4 buying a DVD, used of course from Blockbuster.

Compared to the book it was a lot less graphic. Probably to get the PG-13 rating. When Harry and Voldemorts wands locked together Priori Incantatem occured. That is why you see all of the light. The wands are twin wands made out of the same core. A feather from Fawkes. When an Prior Incantatem occured Voldemort's wand regurgigated the souls of the people he killed in the order that he killed them. Frank was the first person he killed in the book.

**bendogg** · 11-28-2005, 09:08 AM

Emqtee has it correct. If Harry would have hedl on longer, more od Voldemort's victims would have come out of the wand (In the reverse order of when he killed them). Hence, Cedric came out first, Frank the caretaker 2nd, Bertha Jorkins should have been 3rd, but they cut her character out of the movie, and then Lily Potter and finally James (Because Voldemort killed James first and then Lily, who was trying to protect Harry).

Depending on which copy you have of Book 4, Rowling messed up on this part. She had the dad come out first and then the mom (Page 666 of the hardback version). Newer copies have the paragraph fixed.

**SpikeDig** · 11-28-2005, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by bendogg

Emqtee has it correct. If Harry would have hedl on longer, more od Voldemort's victims would have come out of the wand (In the reverse order of when he killed them). Hence, Cedric came out first, Frank the caretaker 2nd, Bertha Jorkins should have been 3rd, but they cut her character out of the movie, and then Lily Potter and finally James (Because Voldemort killed James first and then Lily, who was trying to protect Harry).

Depending on which copy you have of Book 4, Rowling messed up on this part. She had the dad come out first and then the mom (Page 666 of the hardback version). Newer copies have the paragraph fixed.

Got onto to the Potter-mania a little later than most. So we've got paperbacks 1-4 & hardcover 5 & 6. CUZ they don't print the first editions in paper! True fans should have a set of both. Hard for the personal library. Paper for the kids or the lending library to pass on any good books to friends & family.

Now, I'm going to have to RE-READ "Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire" a third, fourth, or fifth time (& probably re-watch too)!

**Grimm** · 11-28-2005, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by bendogg

OK, It's decided then... He's FIRED! We'll try and get Ian McClellan to do #5 or resurect Richard Harris!

No, get Patrick Stewart. He has the voice and mannerisims neccisary to pull off the part. Makeup can take care of the looks. He is an excelent actor.

**brainsmile** · 12-11-2005, 07:24 AM

No I don't agree... I think you need a softer toned voice for Dumbledore. Steward enunciates too well for the part. Harris gets my vote

**Grimm** · 12-11-2005, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by brainsmile

No I don't agree... I think you need a softer toned voice for Dumbledore. Steward enunciates too well for the part. Harris gets my vote

Harris is dead. Stewart is not. Therefore Stewart would make a better Dumbledore. Cause Gambon is just not cutting it. Also Stewart can act and moderate his voice as neccisary.